Jocko Podcast 240: Your Fight Against Inertia. A Body At Rest… Combat Lessons 2, with Dave Berke

this is jocko podcast number 240
with echo charles and me jocko willink good evening echo good evening
and also joining us tonight once again dave burke good evening dave good
evening all right last podcast which was podcast 239 in case you
couldn't subtract one from 240 and i suppose we should
give out some kind of shout out to the 240 golf i don't know why
but we should shout out to all you machine gunners out there
that that ran that 240 golf last podcast 239 we covered the
first edition of combat lessons rank and file in combat what they do and
how they do it that was number one and
you know to be honest when i got done with that one i said you know that's
cool there's but there's more of them and i kind of thought to myself you know
well uh how many combat lessons are there right
and then i remember this is 240 podcasts worth of combat lessons
but i was leaning towards hey probably not going to cover more of these things
because there are more of them and then i started reading number two
and as i read number two kind of out of the gate section one
which is called leadership and you just get
you just restart reading it and before i knew it i couldn't stop
and there's more lessons more perspectives more angles some more
knowledge to make us better and i was really coming at this one i
was really thinking about life a lot you know all aspects of life
and i think it's the opening of this that gave me that
sort of mindset going through it i was thinking about life the parallels are
everywhere all right let's let's go to the book and
i think dave coming out of the gate you're gonna realize where i why i got
so sucked into this thing just out of the
gate so the first section like i said it's called leadership
and then and then the first subsection is leaders versus inertia
i was already i was you had me at inertia as they say
lieutenant colonel r e o'brien cavalry observer with the fifth army in italy
here's what he says in spite of the fact that i observed
many interesting things in practice in the practice of tactics and technique
still the one lesson that stands out in my mind above
all others is the one that is so well known by military men
that its statement here amounts to little more than a platitude i mentioned
it however because it had such a profound effect
upon me that lesson is the importance of and
need for adequate leadership so
cool i got through that fine i wasn't quite there yet
and then i read this the effect on most men of the impact of battle
is to cause them to want to do nothing a determined effort must be exerted to
accomplish even simple tasks and men are likely to neglect duties
which they know must be performed so think about that
right right out of the gate right there the effect of men in battle
is that you're going to want to do nothing and again this is why i was
talking about how this started making me think about life a lot think
about that when it comes to life how many people
are just drawn towards the easy path not doing what
you're supposed to do duties that you know must be performed
but you neglect them yeah that's that's the difference
between success and failure in life by the way did you guys say in the
marine corps why why stand if you can sit why sit if
you can lay down did you guys say that in marine corps
similar what'd you guys say uh i'm trying to think of the phrase but
it's the same alignment of like why do this when you can just do that i
can't remember exactly what i said but when you as soon as you said that
you were saying i was a little thrown off by the title because you said
leadership versus inertia and i was thinking myself
leadership kind of creates inertia and when he's saying stan the people who
follow like newtonian physics are going to
laugh me out of the building but it seems like what he's describing is the
opposite of inertia sitting there doing nothing rather than moving in a
direction yeah yeah or it's the you're you're
fighting to keep it going keep the inertia moving yeah
uh he says there is no force other than a driving leadership to overcome this
inertia yeah so he talks about inertia as the static
being not moving this tendency to carelessness
and to infuse a determination to succeed in the minds of the individual men
when this spark of leadership is present the individual knows that others feel it
too and that his effort is not alone however
i was not a leader in this campaign so i will quote an
officer who is a successful commander in an infantry regiment
the wearer of a silver star an officer who has a fine reputation
in his division and here's what this officer says this tell your people when you return
that the hardest job they will have here is getting things
done my men know their weapons and tactics thoroughly
my effort is simply to require them to do the things they know
must be done posting security dispatching patrols seeking a field of
fire retaining their equipment and making sure that it is in working
order you have to check all the time i believe it was patton that said
90 percent of your job as a leader is making sure that the orders get
executed making sure that the things actually get done
so that opening right there is what kind of made me just say
i we need to talk about this because it's it's applicable so directly to us
as human beings and you know i always talk about the um
the gravitational pull you ever seen the chart of the gravitational pull of when
the space shuttle or something launches i guess it's not the
spatial it's it's space x sure elon kicking those things up into
space but they use whatever some massive
amount of their power is to get the first whatever mile up
that's where they use 50 of them i don't know what the percentages are but it's a
massive percentage of the power is to break free
of the gravitational pull of the earth and once they're free of it then once
they're moving they're okay like so much of the effort of a leader
is just to get things to go get things to move
and we're going to get to this there's definitely some things here and we're
about to roll into them where it talks about you know
so much reliance on the leadership and in certain situations you can see them
leaning towards a micromanagement you know hey if i
don't make this happen but in other parts of the of this book
they start talking about how the way that you're going to win is
through individual efforts and individual leadership so you get into
decentralized command a little bit later but
but i think it's one of those dichotomies i think it's one of those
dichotomies as a matter of fact i know it's a dichotomy
that sometimes the phrase i used to use a lot and i use it a lot on this podcast
was the force of will right hey you know as a leader
i'm just going to make this happen there's going to be a force of will we
are going to win this thing we're going to go this
i'm going to make this happen and that's what he's talking about here this
force of will that you have to exert to make things happen
even things that people know they should do
next section discipline so right out of the gate we're talking leadership and
discipline i was i was in there the keys to success
in combat the key to success in combat commanding
general in a personal letter to lieutenant
general mcnair i would like to mention a few things i consider important in
getting any prospective units ready for duty in
southwest pacific the first of all requisites is discipline with a
capital d i refer to discipline in all its phases
water discipline malaria discipline personal appearance
military courtesy the wearing of the uniform
personal and collective sanitation carrying out orders
in general assumption and proper discharge of responsibility throughout
the chain of command etc there is an inclination for men
as well as some officers to go native in the tropics
to let down mentally on material and spiritual values
so discipline is especially needed here needless to say i consider an aggressive
offensive spirit always goes hand in hand
with good discipline so that's that's one of those things
where you know we're talking about imposed discipline
in some ways there right you make sure your weapons are clean make sure you're
cleaning yourselves makes there's a there's a whole list of things
make sure you're drinking water make sure you're cleaning your feet
isn't that a weird one have you ever been in the law in the water or in the
in the bush long enough to get like a really bad feet
no i got i got a minor case of trench foot yeah
and when the guy who is my swim buddy during this particularly
long snr operation where we were a two-man pair out there
just a training operation but he got actual trench foot he got
he went to medical and they're like oh yes you have trench foot
it's weird that things like that you know
when you see talk to guys about vietnam one of the main
things that the officers would do is check guys feet because they wouldn't
check on themselves so even something that seems so
obvious like you'd want to take care of your feet
people will not make that little extra effort the inertia
for them is to say you know what i'm just gonna go to sleep with my boots on
and they're wet i'm not gonna dry out my feet
and by the way you can sleep with your boots on i did we would
we would sleep with our boots on the field but we'd take our socks off we'd
unlace our boots so our feeder and they're just kind of
loose so they can kind of dry out a little bit
hang your socks on a little tree or something nearby
but you don't want to get rolled up echoes looking puzzled you don't want to
get rolled up in the field without your boots on
okay that makes sense if you get rolled up in the field without your boots on
you've got some problems to deal with i can see that btf tony you know you
take one boot off you fix whatever you got to fix then you
put that boot back on then you don't take both of them off
you're just sitting there john mclean style basically
naked oh yeah that's uh a movie die hard the first he runs on the glass yes he
wound up running over glass and how come he how can we get caught without his
boots on because when he arrived at nakatomi
plaza he at um a request another quest a
recommendation from a friend you take off your shoes and you make
fists in the carpet with your toes it de-stresses you
so that's what he was doing in the middle of this hijacking scenario
interesting yep see there i was thinking that this book had knowledge in it uh next lieutenant colonel clifton
f khan 77th field artillery in italy the great
stress placed upon discipline and the chain of command
is not an overemphasis and never can be we have found again and again that the
highest standards of discipline are absolutely necessary
in and out of combat in no other way can you be assured that the individual
soldier will carry out orders without supervision and
in combat this is essential so again we're talking about
very stringent discipline and we're talking about imposed discipline
i mean we are let's call it like it is yeah but the connection he's making is
is what i was thinking as you're talking that last passage it's
that connection to the imposed discipline that i'm going to start with
that's going to get you to recognize over time yes
what you need to do the self-discipline you need to create and if your plan is
like i'm just going to make my folks self-disciplined
you're actually going to skip the part where they learn why you have to do it
and sometimes that starts with you're going to do this you can ex
explain it but you asked me if i ever had an
emergent foot or trench foot i never spent enough time
in the right an environment to have to deal with that but i'll tell you my very
first fortune forest march which is a five
mile for smarts like a very short first march at officer candidate school
in 1991 we stopped 50 minutes into it we all changed our socks
that's what we did and so that's one example of
but it was totally imposed on us but i was able to make that connection
from these other people and so you're telling the story about people that
were non-combat ready because of that but those lessons are
all over the place in the military and it all starts the same way which was
sit down take your boots off change your socks and then over time you make the
connection of oh i understand why i need to do this so
no i never had it but i was taught that lesson very early on
yeah there's um some sort of obvious religious overtones
too of right of like taking care of your men's
feet right that's just a powerful thing next the basis of good discipline one of
our problems has been to get junior officers and young ncos sufficiently
hard-boiled to exact from their subordinates and meticulous obedience to
every order we must ingrain in all ranks the
realization that orders are not to be treated as suggestions but as concrete
facts calling for the utmost effort until they have been carried out
so many people seem to feel that orders which are
inconvenient or unpopular are to be disregarded
and this is this is one of those things it's hard for me to read this because
we're always telling people look the military is not this thing where just
someone barks orders at you and everyone just obeys
which it's not this state of mind is a disease and must be eliminated so
what what this section says or what this individual is saying
and i don't know if this is the same guy talking because it's not broken out
but then it says this then it says this on the other hand so we got dichotomy
and elimination presupposes that all commanding officers and staffs take care
that the orders they issue are consistent correct and capable of
being carried out so so that that's a very a very discreet
way of saying if you give me an order that's
not consistent not correct and not capable of being carried out i'm not
going to follow it that's what that says they do it in a
very roundabout way they're very cautious about how they said that
because they know they had colonel pogue in the room when they were writing this
yeah and colonel pogue said these better need
to listen because colonel pogue comes up with the
best plan every time master your job lieutenant general
walter krueger discipline and and the leadership of
small units are the things which require constant emphasis the enlisted man or
officer who does not follow instructions and orders
implicitly during training or prior to reaching combat
areas and who cannot do everything every member of his unit might have to do is
not properly qualified the squad leader must know exactly what
each member of his squad should do in each type of operation
the platoon leader should have the same knowledge concerning his squads
and the company commander of his platoons officers must not
start worrying about the big picture until they have mastered all the details
of the little one it's an interesting one i
can tell you right now that it would be impossible to know
everything that the sniper knows it would be possible to know everything
that the radio men knows it would be impossible know
everything that the point man knows it would be impossible to know everything
that the breacher knows do you need to understand them yes
should you be able to set up that breaching charge and clack
it off if you have to absolutely should you be able to pick up that radio and
make comms if you have to where it might take to communicate it may take the
radio men four seconds to do it it might take you
three minutes should you be able to know how to do it yes at some point if you're worrying about
the details of the little picture you might be doing a disservice by
thinking too much about the little picture not enough about the big picture
so i think officers should start thinking about the big picture from day
one and understanding how things fit
together now you can't get lost in that but you gotta you gotta start thinking
about it early otherwise your habit is just worry about
the little things your focus becomes looking down and in instead of up and
out so little that one's too strong for me
too strong for me and i talked about that in leadership strategy and tactics
like you kind of know what to do but there's
a there's like a very discreet place in
the military where you go from being tactical they call it
operation but where you start being strategic in in
the marine corps it's called being a company great officer which like
a junior officer brand new lieutenant to a field grade officer yeah and all of
a sudden there's this magical moment that when you get promoted
from in the marine corps it's captain to major and if it's in the navy from
lieutenant to lieutenant commander well all of a sudden overnight
you are now a field grade officer and you're supposed to think strategically
and this transition point actually is a big source of friction for a lot of
folks and the people that struggle the most
going from company to field grade are the ones who have never thought about
the big picture before and it's not to say that as a second
lieutenant that i've been in the marine corps for six months i need to walk into
the ceo's office and start talking strategy but you have to start
thinking very early on about the impacts of what you do to the big picture and
the sooner you can make the connection the easier that transition is and the
longer you hold on it because it's kind of like this
cool bravado of like i'm a tactician and it sounds really cool
and i just want to fly the airplane and i don't really care about the big
picture well when the time comes you get
promoted and you probably will it was really clear the ones who never
really thought about what they were doing and how that fit in the larger
world when you made that promotion then all of a sudden you actually became
highly incompetent at being a field guide officer because that's when you
were starting and you were being out maneuvered by
guys who had been doing it since they were brand new officers
yeah you know what's really interesting about that is
there are some people that have a personality
and or skill set that is more suited to be
a tactical officer and there's some people that have a personality and skill
set that is more suited to be a field-grade officer
or a strategic thinker that's and i see this in companies too you know i've
worked with companies where the ceo that got that company
from whatever position you know got them to go public
or got them perched or poised to go public
as soon as they're going public that guy's out of there or maybe even before
they go public because this guy he's good at making things happy dynamic
but he's not polished he's not clean he can't brief up the chain of command well
he doesn't articulate himself at the next level because some people
can flow from talking to a platoon like listen up what's going on like you
you can be in that mode and you can walk turn around and talk to
give the general a brief on what the impact on the cultural moments or the
civilian populace and all those things some people can do both some people do
one some people do the other and it's very interesting it's very
interesting because you might not make it to field grade
officer even though you you might be you might
be good at it but you just don't have the you just don't have it you know you
just don't have it so think about that when you're working
with you know when you got people
subordinates that you're working with you might have somebody that's not
maybe the best tactical leader are they can they do the job you know
what i mean look they might not be able to do they
might not be the best at it but maybe they can get through that job and they
can do a good job as that at the next level up
and some people they might be incredible at
getting after it in the field and you can't let them brief
you can't let them brief the boss because they're gonna mess it up
so so the good thing is if you're if you're one of these humans out there
if you're one of these potential leaders think about where you are and think
about modulating your personality depending
i can promise you if you watched me debrief a seal platoon
and then you watched me brief the secretary of the navy
the those two guys like the venn diagram overlap was pretty small if you were
just to take the words that i said just a manuscript or whatever transcript of
what i said the core things that i said the the i
wasn't saying anything different i wasn't saying i wasn't
giving uh i wasn't lying to the big boss and i wasn't lying to the troops
but the the method of delivery was different
because of talking to a different audience who understands things
differently good thing to think about
a couple of these here trial by fire trial by fire there's there's incredible
stories inside these books um about what men
do and they're definitely worth look this is another one from
we read one from this last time this is from the uh the battle of the attu
island which is those aleutian islands up in alaska
fighting the japanese this is a citation the company led by captain thomas b
o'donnell was thrown into confusion by the strafing of hostile airplanes while
it was forming to attack under heavy enemy ground small arms fire
seeing the immediate need captain o'donnell moved from his squad from
squad to squad restoring order and then led his men to the assault
during which he received a severe wound in the neck and shoulder and was
evacuated three days later upon hearing that his company was again scheduled to
make an attack he insisted upon returning to the fight although weak and
suffering severe pain from his wounds he led his company in attacks on the
enemy until five days later when he was mortally wounded
while moving about in advance positions encouraging his men one of the one of the um one of the
lessons that i taught specifically i taught it to a bunch of
people but the first time i remember teaching at someone was to uh was to
seth stone the delta platoon commander who you know when you're doing immediate
action drills there's there's standard operating
procedures and you follow you follow those standard operating
procedures and he would you know he would follow what the rules
were and that if that meant that he was gonna
his next position that he was supposed to go to according to the
standard operating procedures was behind a berm
where he couldn't see anything that's where he was going and you know i just
said hey man why are you going there you know because
this is where we're supposed to go i said can you see anything
no can you make a call no can you can you lead your men no okay move move
around go see what you got to see you can move around you could you don't
you don't you can't break the sops there's a difference right you can't
break the sops but you don't have to follow them
perfectly so there's a big difference breaking the sops means you get out of
your lane and now you can get shot by friendly fire
not following the sops means you're staying within the confines of the rules
but you're still moving around and telling people what to
do and you can imagine this is the perfect example of what this whole thing
started off with which is look this guy in order to get his troops to go
he had to personally get out there and and
you know why would you risk your life doing to in that's what it says
encourages men why would you risk your life to encourage your men you know why
because if you don't do that your men aren't going anywhere that's the
breaking the inertia you talked about at the beginning exactly if you don't do
that as a leader you're gonna sit there and you're gonna
you're gonna eventually you're gonna get rolled you're all gonna die in that
position you cannot stay there but the path of least resistance that
human nature is i like this box hole yeah he's gonna hang out down here this
is good for me and he's like no we can't stay here and leadership is the
only thing that gets people to see that that that is those are the times when
you have to lead from the front you got to make things happen
doubling in brass and i have no idea i don't know if there's some weird
uh 1940s idiom that i don't know about but this the titleist section is
doubling in brass citation 37th division new georgia while private
blair f hertz was performing his duties with
the maintenance section in the vicinity of the unit
ration dump they were attacked by japs who had surrounded them
he grabbed a bar and advanced on a jap machine gun that was delivering intense
accurate and extremely effective fire into the dump private hertz was able to
silence this machine gun and then continued to aid aggressively in the
defense of the position until reinforcements arrived
just getting after it just in the rear getting after it
when a citation starts with a private you know you
know this is going to be a good one you know he got some
yeah you know what's too bad is you know in the navy you have rates
where you can tell what the guy's job was this guy's just a private but you
know his job was probably you know well he says mate his duties
with the maintenance section so this guy was changing oils and
vehicles or something and then all of a sudden
he's grabbing a bar and just getting some
here we go dichotomy of leadership oh no sorry this section isn't called that
it's called something else it's called be brave intelligently this is a weird one to read lieutenant
colonel ari o'brien cavalry observer with the fifth army in
italy a prisoner of war a german light machine gunner asked an
interrogator whether americans took stimulants to
make them foolishly brave when asked to explain what he meant he
stated that he and an assistant gunner were in position with a good field of
fire one afternoon when a group of american soldiers
was observed approaching he fired several
short bursts and began preparation to displace
to the rear when he saw the american soldiers rise to full height
and start charging toward his position over a hundred yards away
he reloaded his gun and opened fire killing eleven men
he then withdrew because he was sure the charge was made to conceal
an envelopment but none was made unit commanders found it necessary to
direct their men to make full use of concealment and covered
approach continued emphasis on the necessity for dispersion
and the use of cover and concealment is essential so
this is what we don't want to have happen we don't want people to be so
brave that you charge over an open area a
machine gun nest and the comment here says in the
interest of efficiency bravery must be supplemented by brain
work dead heroes are of little further use to their units aggressive fighting
men trained to apply the most efficient
technique to combat problems willing to accept any necessary risks
and conscientiously avoiding unnecessary risks are the backbone of
the army got to be brave but you got to be smart
there's the dichotomy what was the original uh the original
statement on that was brave but not full hearty brave but not foolhardy combat in towns as major campaigns
develop in western europe combat and towns assumes increasing
importance cities towns and villages control the established road nets which
must be open for the movement of guns heavy equipment and supplies necessary
to support the advance of infantry combat in towns will often be the key
not only to our successful advanced but to successful
defensive actions just talking about mount in 1944 attack of towns captain w.e harrison
harrison parachute infantry italy the theory of attack of a small town or
village is to work groups around the flanks cut the retreat
and move in with patrols in this hilly country however we have
found that where there is any high ground
behind the town which dominates both the town and the line of retreat the best
way is to work the entire force around the
town under cover seize the high ground in the rear and
firmly establish ourselves with 60 millimeter mortars on that dominating
high ground we take enough food and ammunition for
to last us 24 hours and the germans usually pull out during
this time from our position we can prevent reinforcement and inflict heavy
losses on them during their withdrawal so we're
flanking people and we're taking high ground i didn't think of anything new i didn't think of anything new lieutenant colonel lg freeman parachute
infantry battalion commander in italy we learned at
alta via to avoid the direct attack of towns it's too costly we now
work around to the rear with a large force and seize the dominating ground in
the rear we did this at kallo machia fornelli and several other places
the names of which i've forgotten i like it when you're just forgetting major
battles that you've had it worked every time get yourself within
60 millimeter mortar range of the town on dominating terrain
in or near it and the germans won't stay in it
and then it says this here's the comment i like these comments
the fact that the germans had been known to withdraw without a fight from towns
in the rear of which we hold dominating terrain does
not necessarily mean that such will invariably be the rule however this
possibility plus the fact the caesar of such
high ground will greatly facilitate any subsequent attack
on the town proper suggests that commanders should give
serious consideration to these tactics where the terrain permits it also should
be remembered that if such high ground is held
by the enemy our attack on the town proper will invariably be costly
and the town itself untenable that's how important high ground is in planning the attack of a town proper
the following considerations should be borne in mind one reduced
observation and limited fields of fire in place of heavier stress on close combat so you
are going to get some to controlling of attacking troops will
be difficult and much depends on individual
initiative and aggressiveness of small unit leaders
so there you go we we we opened up talking about how you
better follow all these orders and now we're on page eight and we're
talking about hey you know what it depends on the
initiative of initiative and aggressiveness of
small unit leaders making things happen
where possible towns should be bypassed isolated and attacked from the flanks or
the rear why are we even attacking this position
if we don't have to roll around it imagine if you made that
part of your everyday sort of scheme of maneuver i can beat my
head against this wall or i can walk around it
it seems like a good idea at least it seems like a good idea to me
i don't know echo's over there shaking his head
a lot of times when you say every you know you use those what do you call
those words that are real like real permanent yeah like do that in
everything you know every time you say that i think
i just triggered id i took some i took some heat off of it
by saying it seems like yeah that would be a good thing to do
and part of your everyday plan yeah yeah then that's what kind of
triggered me though to think like of all the things
that it probably or maybe wouldn't work yeah i don't know
would you treat your workouts like that let me sidestep this workout maybe flank
it you're on dangerous ground right now yes sir you're going at it you're
potentially right about that one i'm just saying usually when it comes to
workouts i'm to smash the workout let's face it you know i'm going to go
ahead and full frontal assault yes sir well i i would think so
anyway unless i may guess it depends on what you mean by flank
like i guess you could flank your initial feelings
about the incoming workout if you don't feel like doing it
you know you could maybe maneuver that way maybe
but maybe maybe not i don't know maybe just direct assault work out
smash it get it done i like it there are times
there are times so maybe not everything in life you know
maybe not everything yeah but maybe if you're dealing with other people
it's a good call yeah that could be the case
uh this section here starts talking about like how you actually
clear towns and it goes through and then it gets to a point where it starts just
telling the comments about the story so i'm not going to dump into the story i'm
not going to go deep into the story here but just some of the comments here about
the defense of a town the defense of a town must be prepared to meet the
methods of attack which may be employed by the enemy
since this must include the possibility of flanking attacks and encirclement it
follows that an all-around defense must be the
rule the following points not covered in the
experience quoted above which is the one that i didn't read which is why you
should read these things yourself should be born in mind in planning the
defense of a town one avoid if possible placing principal
centers of resistance close to landmarks or at the edge of a
town where the enemy adjustment of artillery or mortar fire
will be facilitated positions either outside
or within the town should be chosen and i read this whole section to read
this and it's something that we talked about
the other day on ef online and i don't know you were if you
were on the call and i talked about don't give away your position yes yeah
totally i went into a whole a whole
explanation of not giving away your position
and it's weird it's a weird thing to talk about because it seems real sneaky
yeah right it seems real like oh it seems real sneaky especially when
people love so much to talk about like being transparent but here's the deal
if you have an idea dave and i have my own idea
if i just put my stake in the ground and say my idea is this
i'm giving away my position now if we were going to go attack
an enemy outpost i would do everything i possibly could to avoid giving away
my position because once i give away my position well now you know
where to attack me on so what i would rather do
is listen to what you have to say here let let me understand what your position
is because then it allows me to maneuver
and change my position and also if you're an offensive person and your
ego's out of control as soon as you see my position get guess
what you're going to do attack it so i gave you my position now you're
going to attack it now what do i do then dig in now what do we have a standoff we
have extra casualties we don't need so why am
i giving away my position when i'm having a conversation and this
is it's one of those things it sounds so manipulative right
but then i took it a little bit further on the ef online i
said this is the facts the reason i don't give away my position
is because i don't actually have one i'm not rolling in there thinking that i
know everything i'm thinking i may have some
ideas that could you might be able to calculate
and estimate approximate where i am but i'm not going to go in there and say
dave i believe this because not just because i want to hide
it from you that's not why it's because i actually question my own
beliefs i actually am not looking at you
thinking i know the best thing to do i've got some
ideas but you can't lock down my position because
i'm not gonna stay there i'm not digging in
being transparent this authenticity doesn't have to be in opposition to what
we just described either being transparent could be hey i'm going
to i'm going to have a conversation with
tell you a whole bunch of things that i'm thinking about
that are things for you to consider as well for me maybe thinking
what i don't want to do is sit here and go hey you've mentioned three things
that i really feel like i want to give you feedback on
but i don't want to tell you those things for whatever reason
being transparent is not the same as digging your heels in
those the authenticity of that there's this you would know this echo
there's this social media thing where like somebody says some statement
it's like a meme and then it says prove me wrong it'll say like
martians colonize the moon prove me wrong or
louder with crowd or situation whatever i don't i i i should know more about it
i know that you probably know enough but there's this little
what kind of underneath that is this idea like
you're not going to change my mind i know that you are not going to change my
mind i'm being fully transparent here this
idea of transparency doesn't have to be the opposite of
what you just described you can be fully transparent and if i actually my
relationship is strong enough with you you know what you're going to do when
i'm being transparent you're going to listen to me
and then you're going to come back with some things oh that's a good point and
then actually together what will happen is we'll come up with the right plan and
then we'll go execute it and it'll be awesome
yeah the idea of not giving away your position you don't give it away not
because you did not cause you're hiding it it's because
you're truly don't don't know you don't lock yourself
into it yeah so i'm not walking into conversations i know i know what to do
i'm not doing that and if you if you're in a leadership
role if you're in an actual leadership role how much do you think
your people really want to engage with you if you announce your position out of
the gate like what's the chances of them giving
you great feedback being transparent yeah
yeah how does that encourage transparency from the troops
answer it doesn't well and if it does hey dave that sounds like a great idea i
fully support your idea you're so smart yeah which is the last thing you want as
a leader to be told how smart you are by your subordinates you want to be told
hey i don't agree with you oh great tell me why where practicable form salience by
organizing outlying buildings to cover perimeter
of town with flanking and unfilled fire i had to look up the word salience
because i didn't know what it meant it's like a little projection that's
sticking out of the battle line so you in order to get a little better
cover you can you can take an outlying building and you can set up a kind of a
fort there the noun a salient yeah form salience
because there's a word salient right yeah it means like significant or
what does that mean i think it's like a clear point yeah which is the
the other it's the same thing right a clear point
well here i am making this it's like a projection it's a point something that
sticks out but that was a salient point yeah meaning oh
yeah that was a good point i understand what you said
oh we built a salient out there oh it's a little point where we've got the solid
coverage kind of like monolithic kind of the same
deal yeah i guess kind of kind of the same
deal like there's a there's a monolith which is the noun version of
monolithic kind of kind of thing yes there are
all kinds of words that are based on other words hey i'm just trying to
understand this whole deal every once in a while echo says
something and then once he says that he writes down a little note and that means
he's going to go back and edit himself out
i don't know if that made the list i think he's going to hold it i think he's
going strong no hey may that'll probably help some
people as far as as far as salient in salience goes yeah
and and also help people realizing that
there are multiple versions of the same words
in the world yes it's true i'm a jerk
in addition to a central reserve within the town provide if possible
for a concealed mobile reserve preferably strong in armor
to be held outside the town to counter enemy flanking maneuver and once again
what is the root of that right there don't give away your position the root
of it is hey hide this element which is smart
keep it mobile wherever adjacent terrain features dominate the town
they should be secured obviously this use of high ground
may be key to successful defense that's funny they say dominant terrain and then
they just call it high ground within the town the construction of
street obstacles or barricades to impede enemy movements and the organization of
groups of buildings into strong points should
be carried out as extensively as time available will permit
strengthen your defenses in delaying actions the defensive use of towns will
prevent the attacker from determining the strength
of the opposing of the forces opposing him it is not
normally advisable to organize a town as an isolated strong point
except under terrain conditions which prevent the enemy
bypassing it so don't stick a town out there on its own
don't stick anyone out there on their own unless the terrain allows it so then there's a um
i didn't cover one of these one of these sections but
this one when i started reading it and as i read through it i said to myself
this is such a great example of simplicity
and the way this this battalion attack happens
and then the way it gets debriefed is all very interesting so i'm going to
burn through this real quick mission this is a battalion attack in
italy mission lieutenant colonel earl taylor infantry battalion commander
in italy on october on 11 october my battalion was ordered
to make a night march pass through the second battalion which
was about three miles east of the italian town of guardia
north of the calor river and seized the high ground
in the vicinity of guardia we were then to continue the advance
contact as we approached guardia our leading company made contact with the
enemy at a and there's a sketch that they go
through this it enveloped with one platoon go stop by heavy machine gun and
direct 88 millimeter fire from points e f and d
and was unable to advance i immediately moved to the high ground so
basically they get into a big gunfight and they can't
they can't move forward and here's here's what i like i immediately
moved to the high ground 200 yards north where i could observe the enemy position
so right now we have observed happening
getting on the high ground love that observe what's he doing why is he
observing well because he's got to figure out what to do
now he gets up in this observation position
and he says the enemy had all of the high ground to the front and i could see
it would be impossible to advance frontally
so what does that mean now he's orienting himself to the situation oh
the enemy's got all this high ground up here
i can't advance friendly so that was he to do so
i decided to make a double development sending company i
over the hill to the right and company k on a wide left envelopment
contact was to be maintained visually so that there's the action
it's actually happening so he goes through the oota loop in like four
sentences which is totally legit yeah base of fire five tanks were available
for the attack realizing that the tanks could not
move down the road to guardia which is the only tank approach
due to the streams and high mountains and because the enemy had 88s and
armored cars at f i decided to in place the tanks along with my eight heavy
machine guns and six 81 millimeter mortars as shown
in the sketch results the attack was successful
by order the tanks and other supporting weapons open
fire five minutes before company l started its advance that is called cover
and move we got tanks and and supporting weapons
firing and then company else starts their move
after five minutes 15 prisoners were captured 25 enemy killed our casualties
were approximately 10 killed and 15 wounded which when you think
about the assault on a you know in an urban
environment you're going to take some casualties and those are certain
certainly some casualties but those are not as bad as you might imagine going
into a city when you consider the fact that if you don't know anything about
urban combat one enemy with a machine gun
can kill dozens and dozens of troops the enemy strength as determined from
prisoners was two rifle companies each reinforced
supported by tanks armored cars and 88s along the road
these prisoners stated that their force was so completely disorganized and
demoralized by our volume of fire that and scheme of attack
that was impossible for them to make a counter attack and regain their
positions planning it took about two hours to make
plans for this attack which was very carefully studied planned
and coordinated it's funny sometimes the us military spends months
making plans for an attack and and he's saying this took two hours but it
was carefully studied planned and coordinated that's what he needed was a
solid two hours it effectively utilized the terrain
features every weapon available to the battalion was used in such an attack
maps must be pre-arranged with critical points and phase lines
once the attack is started the basic plan cannot be changed
it must succeed that's an interesting statement and i the
the word that i underlined was basic you're not in your head dave like yeah
my immediate reaction is must not be changed i get
like an intense like oh but yeah you're right the basic plan
it doesn't say we can't change so rather than sort of get all excited that he
says he can't change anything is to he's right yeah especially at night and
when you look at this whole situation you actually want to limit the amount of
replanting and recoil you want to limit a lot of things now
not the individual actions of the teams of maneuvering and things like that and
let them make the adjustments but you don't want one element to go you
know what let's cancel the envelopment and just do something different and
abandon your portion of the plane you actually can't do that so you
actually need to keep the basic plan that that clarity actually made a lot of
sense yeah that one word yeah that one word makes a big
difference when you start thinking about what they're doing you've got
what is it eight heavy machine guns since those guys are doing
a fire a fire mission on this town for five minutes before you enter the town
that's coordination you can't start thinking well you know i think i'm gonna
go early or whatever it is you're the basic plan you got to stick with
that basic plan then i i this is something that i lived
by if i if it was possible to stick with
the basic plan i was sticking with the basic plan like
it would have to be something really now we would have a contingency plan
hey but if i could avoid using the contingency plan
i i would stick with the basic plan that we we that we rehearsed and we would
rehearse the contingency too but yeah people expect what they're going to be
doing we had the exact same philosophy we we had contingency plans but the part
of that that made that possible is our plans were usually really fluid
some key limits you had some limiting decisions inside there
but our plans weren't hyper detailed and super down to the
so you could stick to the basic plan we used to have just a joke stick to the
plan that was what we always said like what do you do here just stick to the
plan that didn't mean you don't think you
don't make changes but the idea that what we planned and how we coordinated
stick to that and then make smart decisions along the
way to reinforce that as opposed to you get halfway there and then
hey you know what we should do we should come up with a new plan like there's no
time to come up with a new plan once you cross the line of departure you kind of
need to stick to the plan the basic plan which also drove our
plans to be basic we had very basic big picture
plans yeah simple and flexible if you know
if the three of us were gonna go and take down a building
and we say okay here's the way it's gonna go once we get to the front door
echo you're gonna open the door dave you're gonna go left i'm gonna go
right and then echo you're gonna go left and we go okay
and we rehearse that 10 times i promise you that as we approach that
building there's going to be a civilian in the front yard that echoes
going to have to deal with and all of a sudden that whole plan's out the window
so you can't go to that level of detail and you definitely
need to have flexibility there but the basic plan of hey we're going to
approach the building totally that's not going to change
because we know where the fire support is etc etc etc estimating the situation and planning
should be emphasized in training comment and this was
i found this interesting too this account is a good example of fire
and movement on the battalion though i have no idea i
guess i guess i got it from roger hayden why
why i use the term cover and move instead of fire movement because of the
same thing but i same thing cover and move and fire
movement are the same thing this account at least as far as i know
does am i am i missing something i don't think so we used the term fire
and maneuver yeah that was the one element moves one element covers
and i think it's synonymous yeah yeah however it should be pointed
out that a double envelopment is a rather ambitious schema maneuver for a
single battalion and should be used with caution and i
loved seeing that because what you're talking about echo charles
is you're you're talking about a double involvement you're basically surrounding
a target which means you got
good guys on the flanks of bad guys and if you start shooting at the bad
guys in the middle you can shoot yourself
and it's really problematic the the thing about this and there would be
occasional seal platoons that would go yeah we're
gonna we're gonna just surround the target
it works when nothing goes wrong it works when the enemy doesn't start
shooting it works if you have on the positive
side it works if you have a terrain feature that prevents
friendly fire which is possible you can have a you know a ravine that allows you
to be in a certain position but when you
when you do these battalion sized operations you're actually getting out
of the you should be moving outside the range of your own weapons which is what
the goal is right you know we're really far away
and and as long as we are shooting our weapons at the enemy
there's a very small chance that our weapons are going to hit
our friendly forces so be very careful about double envelopment
and same thing with going to uh enemies rear like if you're going to do that
well then you've got to pay attention to how that's going to work out it is a lot
harder than it looks no mention is made of the constitution
of a reserve force such a reserve must be retained under
the control of the commander to enable to counter unforeseen enemy reaction as
the attack progresses troops committed to a plan of action
cannot be considered as available for this purpose the division
of the battalion into into approximately three
equal attack forces is open to criticism but it worked in this case
a schema maneuver should include a determina determination of the direction
of the main effort and the preponderance of the force
should be available to support this effort here's an interesting
story so one of the great tactical lessons learned of my life which i
learned in training when you so we would set up you know to
to do target assaults typical is any army manual any
any marine corps manual how you do a target assault you know you set up a
base element and a maneuver element so the
base element is gonna engage the target it gets in position and it shoots at the
target once it's shot at the target for a certain amount of time the assault
element then gets up and maneuvers towards the target when
they get to a certain point the people shooting at the target shift
fire off the target but they keep shooting
and eventually they move the assault team moves through the target
and i was watching a young junior officer i was in training
at seal team one and he he said okay what we're gonna do
is for our base element that's gonna do all the shooting at the target area
what we're gonna do is we're going to take our machine gunners from
the other from the assault element who has to move
we're going to move the machine gunners into the base arm we're going to take
some of the riflemen and put them in the assault element so they can move easier
they can get through the target and i said i was thinking to myself
that's pretty smart smart guy is going to get a really strong base element
vietnam vet said what are you doing he said well you know you know master
chief i'm going to go ahead and put heavier stronger bass over here and the
machine got a helmet and i put all my machine guns over in the base element
and i'm like i can already tell i'm glad i wasn't coming up with this plan
but why is that you know he says well because i want to have more machine guns
i want to have more firepower in my base element
and then the the master chief in one question
said what happens if the assault element gets compromised
on the way in end of discussion because now we don't
have any machine guns and and by the way what should happen is
if we have machine guns in the assault element
the assault element just became the base element that's what just happened
so and and the thing that the other lesson that i learned from that
was that what you really get to do the other
benefit which i actually would say is an even bigger benefit
is we have unit integrity which i love unit integrity that squad or that
platoon is always working together the machine gunners are there they can
break off they can assault things they can do they can do all kinds of things
where when you pull those machine gunners out they're not
they're way less capable so apply that to your business to your
team how do we keep the teams together how do we keep the teams together how do
we keep them both how do we keep them most capable that's
what we want to do setting up little specialty moments
is a risky call factors contributing to the success in this attack were
prompt estimate of the situation by the commander including a study of the
terrain based on personal reconnaissance
development of a definite plan of maneuver based on the seizure
terrain and outflanking enemy positions detailed planning of specific orders
utilization of maximum firepower where available
maintenance of control over the elements a little section here on fighting in
wooded terrain lieutenant colonel f l walker infantry battalion commander
italy the area in which my battalion operated was covered in thick scrub
trees and fruit orchards interspersed with frequent farmhouses
many stone walls six to eight feet in height
and numerous sunken roads field of fire was greatly restricted
average observation was only 50 to 100 yards
enemy delaying groups with machine guns were widely scattered
and impossible to locate until arrival within a hundred yards or less
it was found necessary to place heavy weapons out in the front line or very
close up to avoid hitting our troops after
encountering hostile fire it was found very effective to spray the entire woods
ahead with a massive concentration of mortar and machine gun fire
for about one minute followed by a rapid advance of rifle platoons
under assault fire to cover all the trees and house windows
where snipers might be hiding in each case germans pulled out rapidly leaving
weapons and ammunition behind although we had been unable to locate
them previously however the tendency of troops is to wait for definitely
located targets before they will open fire
which results in allowing very small groups of enemy
to shift position frequently and keep up a demoralizing rate of machine gun fire
to cause a great delay the continuous rapid fire delivered by
our heavy machine guns had a particularly demoralizing effect
on the germans the remarks of this battalion commander
emphasized the importance of barrage covering fire the fire power of
available weapons in this instance substituted for an artillery barrage
but the principle remains the same covered move
losses will be minimized by following closely the massed fires of available
weapons delivered in areas from which enemy fire is expected
i think the enemy might be there i'm putting rounds into it
and isn't it interesting how that one dynamic think about that learn that
lesson learned of realizing hey what we need to do
is lay down heavy fire wherever we think there might be enemy and push forward as
quickly as we can think about that lesson like think about
the first time it happens the first time it happens like oh where are they where
are they no one's shooting and then someone goes hey put down fire
and advance and guys start laying down fire and they
start laying down fire where they think there's enemy
and then that allows you to get the enemies heads down because they are
somewhere out there and you get their heads down and now
you're maneuvering and when you're maneuvering they're not
and now you win but can you imagine that that's a little bit off of our instinct
right as a human if you don't if you don't if you don't get trained
that way your instinct is not hey i'm just gonna shoot where i think
there's bad guys i'm gonna shoot in that little dark corner over there i'm gonna
shoot in that window over there i'm gonna shoot near
that stone wall over there you haven't seen one enemy but that's where you're
shooting and now you have a whole company of
soldiers doing that that's a lot of firepower going downrange and it allows
you to move because somewhere in one of those
positions there was enemy but think about what it took to learn
that lesson and how valuable that lesson right there is to be able to tell people
and it also talks about the importance of speed which is the next
note regimental commander infantry sicily
i believe that the individual soldier now realizes that a relentless steady
advance saves casualties and that he is now
imbued with the knowledge of the importance of speed
every man in this regiment is firmly convinced that the speed of our recent
operations saved us from huge losses down to the
lowest private the feeling exists that we would still
be at kanasady if we had not
pushed the enemy off balance and kept him that way you know how often are we sitting there
waiting for the perfect plan the perfect whatever
when what we should be doing is moving right you you want to just bring this
down to working out echo charles since that seems to be your main
you know topic for the day all right yeah cool
yes so let's look at two options one all right what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna
go and research on the internet you know what the max
time under load i need to do for this particular workout right
time under tension right but come up with
my periodic periodicity periodization my periodization for my workouts right
all these things that you could spend two hours
researching and then writing and mapping out or you could go do a bunch of
cleaning jerks just go yeah there is an advantage to
doing cleaning jerks look i'm not saying you got to be an
idiot no no but there are some some positive
things to just going yes and keeping moving and firing
where you think it might hey i don't know about
the the the the um the internal bicep head or whatever the
brachial head of the bicep which i know you probably got some
little high tuned exercises in short hands yeah there you go so you do
certain types of curls with the easy bar to
hit that target right yeah whereas you could just say hey let's face it
go do some curls right yeah yeah actually you're right i actually agree
with you hundred percent i agree with that philosophy
in working out yeah i mean there's a couple of things you want to know
otherwise you're just kind of you know moving around with with no
specific direction which i you know teach their own but yeah i
i think that actually is a very good analogy you know you see you sort out
what am i trying to do here um get a few basic
methods on try to you know how to achieve it and just go
especially when you start coupling that attitude with the fact that
we don't want to move in the first place right that inertia is we're just trying
to stay still and now we can we can we can focus on
that by just doing a bunch of planning like hey i'm just waiting to see where
the bad guys are i'm just waiting no freaking lay down fire that's that's
the way you wake up in the morning you wake up in the morning saying i'm gonna
put down fire yeah that's what i'm gonna do
that's a good plan yeah very good plan yeah you're right
about that too how you you're like oh wait
what wait let me try to remember what i was gonna do today and be like well i
should maybe i should do this because tomorrow
i'm gonna do this so maybe i shouldn't do this you know i shouldn't do it that
hard or in you know and you spend all this
time and then it's like well shoot if i do the whole workout now shoot dinners
like in like 45 minutes so maybe i should i don't
know i'm just saying depends on when you work out i guess
sure you know not in your case for sure maybe a breakfast or whatever but yeah
then you're like oh that's 45 minutes that only gives me like 10 minutes to
like or one minute to warm up and maybe man i might as well just do this
tomorrow that way i can get the whole thing done you see what i'm saying
and yeah bro that planning not only did it not a lot of that
not matter meanwhile weakness is winning in your body
meanwhile weakness is winning man and then there's that to avoid
yeah is that i think it was you who talked about i don't know
whatever but yeah when you let the weakness creep in you give that weakness
a precedent you know so the pres the weakness is
sort of like oh yeah i kind of approved my my my presence kind of thing
i was talking about this on ef online the other day i i i've been doing this
lately in my head so and i haven't quite figured out what
this means but i know it's been very functional when you have like uh an option
of doing a bad thing or just not doing the bad thing that reaction of just not doing the bad
thing isn't strong enough i've actually been trying to do
something good okay does that make sense i think let me
explain again so example oh there's a donut over there you know
what i'm not going to eat the donut that's not strong enough not only am i
not going to eat the doughnut i'm actually going to go and do 20
burpees yeah and you know it doesn't even have
to be extreme because guess what you you're we're working or whatever and
just like i just want to have a no no i'm not going to eat that doughnut and
you know what i'm going to do i'm going to go and
uh get my desk cleared off right now yeah kind of on top
doing something actually proactive right to crush
yeah to crush that weakness weakness that's wanting to grow it's just it's
like if it's like you know if i says hey echo uh
heck oh you know you you wanna you wanna come by my house and
and and grill up some steaks and let's say you don't really feel like doing it
and so you're like well you know what i mean i'm gonna pressure you
but if you're like negative i'm already doing something i'm like okay that case
closed right case closed you already won yeah so i'm
just saying going a little bit harder at the weakness
yeah there's a little trend i'm in right now yeah and that and that
works i mean it depends on what you mean by works but that's a good move that's
like yeah you know like yeah i'm about to um
like okay i have i have burpees at the end of this workout i finished the work
a workout with 100 burpees we'll say i'll be like man
that workout was pretty solid you know i don't know about those burpees you know
let's let's we'll do those burpees another time we're going to skip the
burpees this is what we're going to do then it comes time to skip the property
like you know what no 150 or 200 now yeah just for thinking that
you know oh yeah you're going hard on weakness
yes i think that's a positive thing i think you're right
i'm gonna start like this this ties in for me i'm gonna start laying down
fire if i now i'm gonna start being even more proactive i start seeing weakness
i'm laying down fire i'm putting i'm putting some mortar rounds on that
stuff immediately would you write down dave i think we
went so far away from whatever i'm not sure i can bring us back
we're talking about burpees and bicep curls bro you talked about bias before so actually
there might be a little connection here if we think about it for a second you
were talking about well you actually weren't talking about
bias i had the word bias in my mind um when we had a plan hey we're gonna go
in the building you're gonna go to the the east stairwell you're gonna go to
the west and hey we that might not happen we
might have to do something different we used to briefly get on missions these
these general missions like hey all things being equal i want
you to buy us to the south and if you know we get additional
pressure you're gonna be the element that biases to the south now
look something may come up where you can't do that and that's fine you may go
to the north go and let me know but our plan is that
all things being equal we're gonna bias in this direction which
allows me to keep my plans like really general yeah that's about as
general as it gets yeah but it's great and it's but it's it's not completely
like out in nowhere where you don't have some idea but it's like hey these are
the things we're anticipating and all things being equal i want
you were you were we were talking about the um the inertia thing which has kind of
bugged me from the beginning but i actually was thinking about as you were
saying it is you know he's talking about like the
laws of physics whereas objects and at rest tend to stay at rest
and objects in motion tend to stay in motion and the hard part is getting
the the staying at rest and getting it to the motion like once you get the
motion going actually it's not that hard to keep it going
it's the friction of doing nothing and it's that connection you you like you
said i know you didn't invent it but this idea of default aggressive this
bias for doing something is the hardest thing to get
which is the natural bias of doing something and when you made
that comment about when i see weakness or i feel weakness the natural
bias is oh no i'm not going to give in to that
weakness i'm going to do nothing which everybody's like that's the win and
you're like no actually that's not the win
the win is not to do nothing is it better than eating a donut yes but
we're not here to just not eat donuts that's not the game we're playing over
here the game we're playing is just not to
eat the donuts and he started the very first thing is
leadership versus inertia it's that how hard is it to get
the movement to do something but once you have that
bias that bias to maneuver and that starts it's not that hard it
actually gets easier every single time so that's my
connection to things you were saying and yeah
i'm going to let you guys talk about what it is you talk about but that's
what i was thinking about is that what that bias really means
to tie back to the very first thing that i kind of thought about was like hey
what's he talking about because i was thinking inertia is movement
inertia is not movement it's just the state that you're in inertia could be
doing nothing and that's what he's talking about
breaking out of that and the bias to move
uh which is the the most challenging thing yeah i talk about pushing a train
you know and i was like hey if you're gonna push a train
the first getting that thing to start moving is the hardest part
and you start pushing you push you push and it
eventually starts to move a little bit and then you get to a point
if you keep pushing that thing where you can actually like
grab onto the railing and hang on for a second it's just gonna keep going
you started it when you were talking about blasting a rocket ship out of here
exactly you can actually use 90 of your effort
to get that and you'll need you don't need 90 you can coast
the rest of the way once you break free of that gravitational force
of like literally i'm just gonna i don't i'm just on the train now yeah
now look if you can just jump on a speeding train go for it but most of us
most people have to actually get that train from a dead stop and move it yeah
you ever see those guys uh roll up a frying pan
like a like a piece of paper kind of thing i think that's
like the the method really yeah like you hit it like real hard at that initial
and then it like heats up the molecule so it becomes more
yeah i'm not mistaken unless i got tricked or something like that and it's
a one big trick but i'm pretty sure that you're seeming to bring it to some sort
of molecular level which i'm not sure about that was the explanation
for real they're like this is the trick this is how you do it you know what i
do not know if you're right and i do not know if you are wrong
i'm gonna just leave it hanging and people will let us know and we will get
someone with a frying pan posting it and telling us hey echo
charles is 100 right or echo charles the most likely outcome of this is
neither of those it's bro echo talking about frying pans when
we're talking about combat that's the most likely these concepts
are everywhere there's only so much i can do
to keep us on topic here echo i'm just saying if you can work with a frying pan
bruh it's good and rocket ships and whatnot it can work with like
everyday stuff and i actually think echo is the premier example in the world
premier example of in the world in the entire world of
if you know the way broadly you see it in all things you're seeing combat in a
frying pan these ideas are everywhere for sure but
there was uh the as far as feats of strength go there's
the ripping the phone book one yeah right
i think there's a little trick because you gotta like unbunch them or bunch up
but your point is that that initial the
initial break is the hard part that's hard most of your energy
so that's where you use technique well well okay how it went was
the cur the rolling up of the frying pan how how it's explained is
you hit it with that first force of the rolling action
but you just can't like you can't hit one and then re-grip
and hit another one it's not like that you gotta hit it once and just keep keep
going don't let like the momentum stop
because the molecules are still heated up for that moment
it makes it more malleable or whatever that's how it was explained to me
all right we're going to look up you're going out on the limb i like it dude you
got no problem taking risk i like the way you roll next one the
herd instinct major robert wilson observer with the x
division they don't name the division in italy
our troops echo's taking a note maybe he's concerned that's getting edited
oh you're going strong today our troops showed a decided tendency to bunch up
under fire this was observed on several occasions
one prisoner wore a german forward observer
for an 88 millimeter battery was interrogated concerning his technique of
adjustment it seems he had been told that american
troops congregated went under fire when he saw american troops advancing he
would call for one or two rounds in their vicinity and observe
the area where they congregated fire was then
shifted to that area the prisoner stated that he conducted very effective fire in
this way in several occasions on italy don't bunch up not good don't
bunch up leadership strategy and tactics talk
about this from my leadership perspective
let the leader lead you don't need to jump in there and crowd the leader
everyone's like getting there let me tell you my opinion it's like
listen to what the moss has to say if you want some suggestions give it to
them don't crowd don't bunch up base of fire
lieutenant colonel jm fan infantry battalion commander it was
found that so long as japs could keep us
ducking from aimed fire their position remained
secure but once the jap was made to keep his
head down and the americans could get to his feet and attack
it was merely a matter of walking up to the position and tossing in grenades
to make this possible require the coordination of fires down to and
including the riflemen it is important that commanders and
leaders realize this otherwise troops will remain down when it is not
necessary it's so amazing it's so amazing
cover move teamwork down to the lowest level yeah and i just said teamwork and
guess what the next section's called and i i did not look at this next section of
teamwork we would have a rifleman point out a
pillbox using tracer ammunition then a 37 millimeter gun would take them under
fire with high explosives oftentimes a pillbox crew would attempt
to evacuate to a safer place and the light machine gun would mow them down
it interesting when we talk about teamwork and we talk about cover move
the reason that it is such an incredible metaphor is because if you don't
cover and move you don't win it's as simple as that if you don't have one
element that's shooting at the japanese while the other element is walking up
and if you don't do that you lose that's what happens you lose if you do
that you win if you work together as a team you win here's lieutenant colonel tf bogart
infantry officer italy one night in the vicinity of
the battalion established an outpost line around the high ground to the
northeast the city patrols were ordered up several roads leading out of the city
all company commanders were informed of the dispositions
the patrols went out before the outposts were posted
a few hours later firing was heard at the battalion cp which increased in
tempo and kept up most of the night soon
reports were sent that sent in that german patrols were
operating in front of the outposts i'm sure you all know what's coming next
morning it became apparent that our own patrols
had been fired on as they attempted to return to the outpost line
comment the constant recurrence of such reports indicates the necessity for
closer coordination of patrol activity with the outpost of with the outpost
system positive steps must be taken to ensure that the routes
of returning patrols are known to the outposts and that recognition signals
are arranged blue on blue no one thinks it's gonna
happen no one thinks it's gonna happen i never never even thought about blue on
blues it was like such a it seemed like such a i i shouldn't say
we never thought about them but it seemed like such a
foreign idea you'd think how could that ever happen
the way i no one ever thinks it's going to happen to them well that's true
they always know what happens but it always happens to
somebody else some other team someone it never happens to them
i mean that comment is like the common occurrence or the common debrief that we
got on this thing whatever he said like how often they heard that same exact
story notes from other arms there's another
one about just staying off the skyline right don't give away your position i just had to highlight this there was a
section about what it was like when they had an anti-aircraft
versus when they didn't have it and then the title of this section is
absence makes the heart grow fonder and what it was like and and that what
he says in here is that the rarely would the
anti-aircraft actually hit a german aircraft that was
strafing him it would rarely happen but when the anti-aircraft wasn't there
the german aircraft would just come down and just
hammer free reign radio discipline first lieutenant ce
plays air corps sicily flyers coming into the
combat zone had no conception of radio discipline
dave new pilots use the radio
indiscriminately men returning from missions used the
interplane radio unnecessarily which jammed up the band for
other planes still on a mission comma failure to observe radio discipline is a
major problem for both air and ground units
in combat each individual believes his case is a special one
not bound by established rules this tendency must
be discouraged by positive action radio discipline is established to facilitate
essential communications during combat and is not a peacetime play thing to be
discarded when action is joined and this is this is task unit bruiser
we were freaking awesome at radio discipline
we did not talk on the radio in fact there would be
operations where some some task units might use
two or even three separate radio nets to coordinate
and in task unit bruiser we would use one
and it would be almost completely silent so yeah and how does this translate into
regular life it's talking all the time it's not having
discipline what the hell you say just feeling like you gotta throw in
your two cents all the time and yes for those of you that aren't
seeing this on youtube i'm looking right right at my friend
echo charles whatever african um you know when i talk
i think anyway i don't know i i could be wrong here
maybe i'm trying to just support the point you know bring it down to the
everyday level right off see i'm saying i think there's
a you have a lot of supporters out there at least
enough yeah the radio discipline thing isn't it weird too this this idea that
everyone in combat each individual believes his
case is a special one that's such a derogatory
statement and and you know what's funny about that
derogatory statement everyone that hears it thinks they're
talking about someone else like that's not
me but it is you you are talking and no one wants to hear you and
what you have to say isn't that important is that kind of
like talking about your dreams with your friends no idea you ever like
to you ever get your friend but i guess i'm about to have an idea no if i could
you know when your friend is like hey i had this dream last night and it was
about and and it's not about you or nothing but it's like this is just the
weirdest dream aren't you like bro who cares you know
but if you ever find yourself telling whoever about your dreams
yeah it seems like it's so interesting it was just so bizarre and all this
stuff you know the person was like bruh be
quiet you know radio silence resounding
metaphor complete captured documents big section about um upon searching the bodies they found a
map of the second lieutenant and dispatched immediately to the regimental
command post by a runner next day the translation of this map which was
returned to first battalion it showed the japanese defensive plan
and proved very effective in eliminating japanese from that area
when they attacked it not only marked maps but also
documents of less apparent importance may furnish the key to enemy plans
when combined with other information the necessity for
prompt forwarding to hire headquarters of all captured documents
must be impressed on all ranks and i'll tell you why i wanted to bring that up
because this is something we get told about intel all the time is
you know hey look you might find a piece of paper that's got the word
purple on it and you bring that you know hey this is what i found on target
that could be some code word that you didn't know about it and it said wait
you don't know so whenever you think you know
you're wrong whenever you think oh that doesn't mean anything you're wrong
and so when someone is talking to you and you think you know
you're wrong you don't know they've got some perspective that you don't know
so listen to it listen to it i have to put myself in check sometimes
when i'll get asked a question like working with a client
and someone will give me a question and i'm
telling you i have you you i know you you have to
experience this too dave someone someone raised their hand hey i want to
know when it comes to cover and move if i'm
working with another department and they don't we already know where
that question is going right there's like a 98
chance that we know that they're going to say hey this other department doesn't
care about me and they don't really support us so what what am i supposed to
do then just keep support we've heard that question we hear that
question a lot i always have to put myself
in check because just because i think that's what they're going to say
doesn't mean that's what they're going to say it doesn't mean that there's not
some nuance to it it doesn't mean that i can
spit out some module about how you you know well you continue to support no no
listen to what they're saying don't stop them from talking you know the the minutes i see this in
group dynamics you know there's a discussion going on
and someone's talking and someone else someone else in the
group will will cut them off
and this is another thing i talked about on ef online
think about how disrespectful it is to cut someone off right
like you might not say anything to me but if you're talking and i just jump in
cut you off and just just without regard just just start you
know cut you off think about how do you consider that
disrespectful echo charles yes sir i do most people recognize that that is
disrespectful and so they try to stop themselves from
doing it they can't always control their egos they can't always like let it
continue and i'll tell you i think being on podcast have you ever noticed when
two people that have podcasts are on the same podcast they'll let the
other person talk and it sort of let the person complete thoughts because
podcast is sort of an amplified version of if all of a sudden we're talking over
each other it's just painful to listen to
but then if you get someone that's not really a podcast type person or heaven
hasn't done a lot of fun they'll be jumping in and wanting to talk and
and it makes it hard to listen to so to me i think that's that's enhanced my
my my listening right because i if i have a guest on here and they want to
talk it's like okay i'm going to let them complete their
sentence and what i've realized over the years is that when i let someone do that
there's usually some nuggets in there that i didn't know about
so i'm actually going to listen to what you have to say and the minute
when i hear someone at one at you know we'll be working with a company and
you'll hear someone say you know someone's mid-sentence and boom
gets cut off and overrun and here's what i was
explaining on ef online the other day we all recognize that as disrespectful
but it's seldom that we recognize the opposite which is
when i'm listening to you i am showing you respect
and you subconsciously know that like the the person that you're talking to
when you listen to them they subconsciously feel respected
which is a good which is a great thing because we're trying to build a
relationship we're trying to build trust and it's incredible how this tool of
listening is so powerful in increasing the trust in relationships
that we can work to better together as a team and yet it's
neglected all the time because i think oh i already know what dave is
going to say so i'm just going to bud in and start to
tell him what i think well i am disrespecting dave
contrary if dave is talking and i listen to him and i
nod my head and say yup i hear what you're saying and i let him complete his
thoughts not only am i not disrespecting him i
am respecting him and damn if you don't see some just
mayhem go watch the news it's insanity it's total insanity not just
the news casters themselves or the guests that
they have come on for three minutes to yell at each other but you know go watch
some you know two people in this day and age
or five people or a hundred people arguing with each other no one's
listening to anybody why jump into that bar fight
right this is a verbal bar fight which i obviously can escalate into
real fights and real problems nowadays we're seeing all kinds of mayhem out in
the streets and that mayhem is being caused by the
fact that no one's listening to each other
and it starts with the disrespect of i'm not gonna listen to you and by the way
when you when i cut you off and then you try and cut me off back
what's my response i get louder yeah and then you get louder and now
we're escalating next thing you know we're throwing punches next thing you
know we're hucking bottles and bricks and shooting
tear gas and we got a real freaking problem because we don't listen to each other
yeah the a lot of times though when well when i
witness that or see it or whatever i think anyway it
comes not necessarily overtly disrespect but
it's almost like an absence of respect because
more like they're just distracted or maybe just focused
on their own like what they have to say or their own significance or whatever
right so you said yeah because if i think i know
what dave's going to say i'm going to cut him off
and that's true and even if it's subconscious it's true
you know because if i don't know what you're going to say and i'm like kind of
curious i'm going to i'm going to wait to hear it you know
but a lot of times people they're either think they know what
they're going to say or they're too eager about what they want to say
right so it kind of a lot of times it comes back to like what kind of person
you are you know so if you're like hey
everything that comes out of my my mouth is just
gold you'll probably interrupt people more like i tend to see
that kind of pattern you know for sure and um
there's i will say the main time when i jump in on somebody is like
i've got something flashing through my brain and i don't want to lose it yeah
you don't want to forget it yeah there is that to you
and yeah that actually seems like a legitimate
like reason to interrupt sometimes yeah but it's one of those things that i
think like you said a couple times where it's like oh yeah it might
must not have been that important or whatever you know if you forget it but
here's the thing though there's a little dichotomy on that one
too what if dave's over here talking like so much
he said so many things that read like straight up required me to enter and be
like hey i got to stop you there you know like that kind where it's like hey
that's right i gotta stop you there you know kind of thing
but i didn't i just let him go meanwhile he left me with
47 things that require my rebuttal or whatever
and i didn't interrupt them it's kind of like yeah that's a challenge
yeah but at the end of the day big picture you might as well just be like
well at least i listened to dave and everything he had to say yeah i mean
obviously we could break down start to break down the social dynamics of
situations where you know you'll have some disagreement
with you now i will tell you i am much better off if dave is saying
something that i disagree with i am much better off most of the time
letting him say what it is that i disagree with rather than just jumping
in and being like that that look it's it's disrespectful
i'm clearly not listening to you right i'm cutting you off yeah so why am
i behaving that way it's not good look if you
if dave wants to talk for seven minutes and
rattle off you know like you said 47 points
maybe at some point i go you know maybe at some point i say hey
can i just can we can we kind of address these things one at a time
because you've you've just said three different things and i'm gonna i'm gonna
get lost in what you're saying and and i i want to talk about that first
thing i think you could do that respectfully yeah like you got to put
effort into the respectful part of it like i can respectfully interrupt yeah
really but if you're just throwing out interruptions
yeah it's disrespectful there's certainly different modalities of
interruption that are that are you know
wildly different from and you know what's cool what's interesting
is when you are face to face with somebody you can tell
when the person wants to say something right you can just look at their face
and they they get a face and they have a
non-verbal communication telling you i got something to say right now
and if you if i'm if dave's giving me that look
res my my respect to him is to go he's got something to say time to give
him a moment yeah and the i think well i'm speaking from
experience and i don't have much but well actually no i do have a lot of
experience listening to people talk but if you if
you uh have a situation where okay the
person is talking and they're saying all crazy stuff right that kind of requires
some correction or some interruption right
or some discussion at a minimum yeah so unless you guys are
actively working on solving a specific problem we can which can happen like in
work or in a family or whatever but you know how some people they just like to
talk and we're just having a friendly conversation whatever
and they're just blabbing at the mouth saying things that are just
some are true some are not true and they're just going on and on like
they're all all correct right and they won't be quiet you might as
well just not say anything because at the end of the day it it does
you better to just listen to everything they said
and you know what you know the old saying
like yeah you don't want to talk you want to listen because now you know
everything you already know and then you know what they know
kind of thing you heard that one yeah that's that's
uh from this podcast as a matter of fact oh there you go boom so
so it's like that kind of situation you know like you're not you're not
tasked necessarily to to effectively change someone's mind every single time
so you might as well just keep your mouth shut a lot of the time i mean
let's face it if you're going to have a discussion with someone to
try and try and consolidate your ideas together to become
to come up with a the strongest idea then you have to converse with them and
whether they're a subordinate or a superior or
a peer at some point you know in order to progress
ideas you have to converse with them and just sitting there and remaining silent
when people are saying things that you totally disagree with
or to put in a better way you don't fully understand their perspective
then we have to uncover that perspective a little bit and you do that by asking
questions and trying to figure out where they are
coming from yeah you know i'm totally recalling a
very specific situation recently where i was in the middle of this
straight up argument debate social situation about political
quasi-political things and i just witnessed just
mayhem going back and forth i didn't say anything and i was like
oh yeah that's just jumping into a bar fight that you're not yeah but i'm
thinking like hey either one of you guys could
easily just be quiet and listen and not say anything for the rest of the
whole time or whatever and this whole like we'd all be better off
it's kind of like one of those situations so i'm totally projecting
that right now into this situation what do you write down dave dude there's
a lot there's a lot in what you just said your thing that you're just talking
about when you're sitting there watching these other two people
and when you're watching these other two people have like what is kind of like a
ridiculous conversation where they're arguing you're just sort of
the news or whatever and we're all just sitting there as
observers and it looks completely ridiculous to us as observers you see it
escalating you see it going nowhere you see people digging in and when
you're just watching it it's obvious how completely ridiculous
it is the comment earlier is like that feeling
that when we have something to say it's different and
this needs to be said remember that when you're about to open
your mouth somebody else is going to watch it and you're going to look
every bit as ridiculous to them as they did to you
when you're talking about listening and i have learned this
in my life i have learned to have a bias to not talk
i learned that skill i wasn't born with that skill i don't think anybody would
accuse 20 year old dave of having a bias for
listening that's a learned thing that i have
done in my life the trick there is what you have said a thousand times
is you actually have to listen because of what you said before which is if i'm
talking and you're letting me talk and i think you're listening to me i'll
talk i'll keep doing my thing but the second i catch you
the eye roll like the heavy breathe or whatever you're gonna do i'm like dude
this guy isn't listening to me you actually have to listen and the only
way you will truly listen to what the other person
says is if in your mind you believe that you might get something out of it
because if you think you're like oh dude here goes echo
he's gonna just go do what he does and it's gonna be a complete waste of time
the minute i do that i'm gonna miss something and the actual listening part is a lot
harder than it sounds because the conversation having your
head which is i know i'm right all these points are wrong all these things are
saying are just complete waste the active listening piece better come
from a place of authenticity or you didn't get found out in a second
because your body language is going to give the whole thing away and then you
might as well just cut them off right there
because they're not listening because he knows you're not listening to me
uh yeah there's a lot with that and as simple as it sounds
to listen if it was so easy we wouldn't have to say it over and over again
you're all fighting the urge like to yeah yeah it's hard
yeah check a little section here about
just just fraternization with the prisoners
and and that they could not do that which is
the reason the reason i said that is because
here these guys are they're trying to kill you for me this is just shows you
the the predominant spirit spirit of the american servicemen
it says here it was necessary repeatedly to warn the troops against incorrect
practice of fraternizing with prisoners and giving them cigarettes which
interfered with the proper interrogation troops had to be warned not to remove
pay books from the prisoners because these books furnaced a check to
the interrogation officer of the prisoner's statements
in regard to his organization previous service so there's just these
you wouldn't think that after these guys are trying to kill you that you'd want
to give them a cigarette right and yet respect speed marching
commanding general third division sicily the importance of physical condition
cannot be overemphasized speed marching proved of great value and developing
physical condition eliminating the unfit and instilling
confidence and pride in the individual as a general training objective all
units prepared for a landing on defended beaches and in advance inland of about
five miles speed marching continued each unit being required to complete
five miles in one hour eight miles in two hours and 20 miles in five hours
once a week this training was largely responsible for the speed with which the
assault of this division was executed there you go um physical conditioning
it he points out this and this is so obvious
instilling confidence and pride mean what a
factor what a factor way the warrior kid books you know
get a kid that doesn't can't do a pull-up right
and all of a sudden you can do a pull-up you can lift your own weight
you can stand up a little straighter and get your team working out
that's what i'm saying writing messages reports and messages
major robert wilson field artillery italy the who
what when where and why were often not contained in reports both oral and
written battalion regimental s2s and the men themselves indicated that during
maneuvers and in training problems they had thought that this subject had
been mastered but that in combat it was ignored or forgotten
as to clarity the axiom of a message can be understood it will be mis if a
message can be misunderstood it will be
misunderstood was well proven the comment here writing messages during
a unit training program is one thing
writing clear specifically worded messages and orders
under combat conditions is quite another theoretical training in message writing
must be supplemented by constant practice and
supervision in the field that
is why i was an english major so i could learn how to write a section here on dirt breeding
infection half the evacuations from the battalion
was due to infection caused by minor scratches and to that i would say get
yourself some warrior kid soap so you can stay oh come on this is another one of those
life ones a foxhole in time saves lives lieutenant colonel bogart
infantry fifth army italy although the average
american soldier will dig a foxhole or slit trench when the artillery or mortar
shells are falling in his vicinity only a few of those i saw would dig them
prior to that time when they did dig them they were usually
quite shallow it was always very easy to tell a german
foxhole from the american the former were always much deeper
many casualties occurred from shellfire which i believe would have been avoided
had proper foxholes or slit trench been dug
in and this is you know the code the evaluation the protocol
are you prepared for life emergencies are you prepared for emergency
situations we as americans i totally agree with
this we don't like to worry about anything
until it slaps us in the face in fact in the seal teams i used to tell my
leadership no one worries about anything until they
get slapped in the face with it like no one's really concerned about that
until you get hit with it and all of a sudden you gotta execute that mission
and you don't have the gear that you need
so let's get the gear we need let's get do the rehearsals we're supposed to do
be proactive i can kind of go for little things too
oh 100 goes to little things well yeah so these
lit and these little things kind of so the other night i'm at home
it's bedtime go sleep right in the middle of the night here
you know what that is right no idea that's your uh
perimeter security your detector a fire detector with a nine volt battery that's
dead that's dying exactly right and bro
you think you can if you don't have nine volt batteries at what three a.m
and know where they are and know where they are yeah
but let's say you don't have them straight up i mean let's face it do you
just have random nine volt batteries in your in your house
yes i know exactly where they are i have two for each fire detector in my house
here's the thing i'm a father now so so do i oh yeah so do i but i'll tell
you this before i had kids before i had a
thing life whatever that smoke detectors i didn't have nine volt batteries just
hanging around straight up didn't have didn't even
think about it years oh yeah 100 i i guess my wife when she was growing
up they they didn't have batteries like you know the her mom and dad just
batteries weren't on the list yeah and so my wife is a battery hoarder
and stockpiler you want a nine volt you want a triple a
you want a double a what do you want open up that cabinet
and they're in there they're ready bro i'm with you my wife's the exact same
she gets a little bit excited when the batteries run out on something oh
it's like hey the battery's out on this thing oh hold on
and she goes and digs out of ce2325 for my watch
actually i think my watch is at 3232.

Yeah this was gonna say that's the c3
that one's i think that's a scale you put that in one of those little scales
it might be the well i don't know either way yeah i don't know either but
i do know that i did have a nine volt battery that night
but i was thinking to myself bro what if i didn't have a nine volt battery
brad no we're not sleeping tonight you only you're not sleeping then
that and it doesn't have to do just that night now you got the whole next day you
got to contend with you see insane really very this is
because you're paranoid no a fire or that beep is bothering you
the beep is going to keep you up i'm with you man that's that's because
because i'll tell you what happens it turns out that that fire detector
that beeps every 60 seconds can't be destroyed
yeah you could take a sledgehammer to it and just break it without it will
still beep so what you're talking about that's the slap in the face which is
you're totally unprepared for the situation now you're up all night
you think you solve the problem the second you get into bed lights all
covers babe i gotta sort beep and then you're up again so i'm with you
it's true i learned this lesson 30-ish years ago
so i've got those nine volts at the ready yes sir
yeah in in one time you know how i found that out that you can't
you can't stop that thing i was like okay i was like yes no problem
like i'll just take out the battery how can it beat with no power
simply can't be can't happen it's not like you know where does it get the
power to beep from where does that come from apparently
they thought ahead you know in the case of a real emergency it's one of those
things and a little bit more important than your sleep that night if you're
unprepared you know so it made sense when i kind of thought through it but
nonetheless i was still faced with this problem like this
beeping lucky it wasn't in the middle of the night but whatever so i was like
yeah i got to do it i would've had a real problem that day
but i had to put it in the drawer you could still hear it but it was just
way more quiet so when i got a battery or whatever
later on i found out yeah it can't be disabled that's the whole reason it
beeps destroyed cannot can't it can't be
bargained with either but yeah man nonetheless that's the
point it can go for small things too you see what i'm saying just be prepared
how about this how about just keep some nine
nine volt batteries all good problems beeps three am
three pm whenever you all kill batteries batteries low
you know are we good over there equitables with that all right let's
move on section three mountain operations they
go through a big battalion attack here go into a lot of detail it's another
another from another uh perspective on the battle on the
attu island and there's there's some detail there's some maps
and charts and you should go check it out online so you can kind of get the
full benefit of that but i just wanted to hit a couple highlights and going
back to communications here a rather elaborate system of communications was
established to enable the battalion commander to
control the fire of supporting weapons in furtherance of
tactical plans the artillery radio radio as well as
telephone was set up at the battalion commander's op on top
of the hog back which is one of these little
terrain features a sound power telephone was run from the mortar op
back to the battalion commander likewise one from the 75s the telephone was also
run from the op to the officer in charge of
all 37 millimeter firing radio and telephone control was
run to all companies in the battalion so the reason i highlight that that's a
lot of communications and if we're counting on all those
communications we may not get what we we might not get what we
want goes into this here they get into
contact we saw the first one at 0 4 30 in the morning he was a century and we
were then 50 yards of him he stood up against the skyline
and was shaking out a grass mat lieutenant brown
motioned to us to get up a little under the ledge to our front and then he shot
the jap the shot must have awakened others as we worked up
over the ledge a jap machine gunner began firing at us we stayed down until
the first excited burst had gone over then we
raised up and returned fire several japs had holes near the edge of the ledge
we were under and they began to throw grenades over but the hill below is so
steep that most of the grenades rolled down and exploded
out of range below us the machine gun was firing again but several of our men
were close enough to to the ledge to lob grenades over the
machine gun itself was out of grenade range but some of the japs near
the edge caught hell from the grenades are you feeling lucky when the people
that are throwing grenades at you they like bounce over your position and don't
hurt you i think that might have been my whole point there
the radio fails so this is why i get concerned about
about communications and as a former radio man
it definitely freaks me out lieutenant brown tried again and again to contact
battalion headquarters or the artillery and i'm fast forwarding a little bit or
the artillery with the radio but the set refused to function the radio man worked
with it and tried again but failed the platoon was reorganized and we started
up again they're assaulting this hill we got as
high as the ledge once more and had started over the top on the
table above when the jap opened up with
machine guns again we needed artillery and needed it bad every time we stuck
our noses up a hailstorm of bullets cracked across
them the radio man was trying frantically to contact
anybody in the valley below us but the set remained silent
several men had crawled around to the left and threw grenades at the japs
near the edge of the table but the machine guns remained
out of range our men were driven back to the cover of the ledge with several
wounds artillery if we only had artillery we
could observe the fire we knew where the guns were
if we could only get some fire we'd walk over the damn mountains
the radio man was desperate he tried to set again but it was silent
in a rage he threw it down the hill yeah so there's a bunch of things to
think about there just you know your communications cannot be relied upon
you have to have some kind of backup plan
and if you're if you're expecting you can be able to make
communications when when they're really going to be made needed
that is the time they're going to fail that is murphy's law if you say okay
dave here's what's going to happen we have this whole
complicated plan and then when you get to this point
radio me and that's when we'll execute that radio call has a four percent
chance of making communications if everything hinges upon one call the
weight of that hinge just just has
carm karmatic is that a word a karmic karmic impact on that communication
system and it's not going to work great so
their attack gets repulsed um he says he said we heard the guns in the
valley begin firing the attack was on we had failed and we felt bad about it
about it they had the drop on us they're going through the main attack
the japs were holding the pass on the high ground on both sides of the front
two the ones on the right could fire into the backs of the attackers
of the left and vice versa it was rough going
lieutenant clevzy got me up and we went around the second section
to get them started up the hill the attack was going okay but it was an
awfully tough one bullets were flying all over the hillside just uphill from
the second section was a jap 37 millimeter we had watched
them fire from that position several days before and we knew there were japs
in that trench the main attack was moving around to the
left as we started up the hill finally the
fire got so heavy that the machine gun squad took cover
in a little draw until we could grenade the trench above us to clean it out then they were to come on up sergeant
tom kovic private first class william marshall and
i started up with lieutenant clevzy we had crawled on our bellies to within
25 yards of the trench when a sniper raised up and shot
marshall in the air we shot at the sniper we threw grenades into the trench
we crawled up rapidly then ready to move in behind our grenades and another
sniper popped his head up out of the hole just above us
lieutenant clevzy fired his carbine just as the jap fired lieutenant
toppled over a little bank and lay still he was dead
i was just bringing up the rifle as the jet my rifle as the jap
duct then from across the valley the japs spotted us
and they gave us hell machine guns rifles and 37 millimeter began pounding
the area finally the intense shelling slowed down
and we dashed for the open end of the jap trench we had grenaded
the trench led around to the point of the hill we crawled down the trench and
found where the jabs were located when we stuck our heads right up in the
face of a burst of machine gun fire some men from company f had come over to
help us but were stymied we couldn't raise up long enough to fire
we couldn't get close enough to throw grenades
finally we decided to see if we could get some mortar fire on the position in
some way corporal alfred heyman started back up
to check on the mortar possibilities and while we
waited and rested the jab position was slightly below us
and about a hundred yards further into the pass they were firing almost
constantly at the troops we could see moving out in the valley
and on the opposite side of the pass we were quite high up
on the side of cold mountain after nearly two hours of lying in the trench
and waiting we heard one of the men behind holler
here heeman up here he and a man from company h the
infantry were caught crawling up along the little
ravine laying wire they had found a company h mortar
and had a line right to it the big fight up on the mountain had almost gotten to
the top but the forces across the pass were
getting hell from the guns below us we got the phone all set up and
carefully poked a little dirt a little hole in the dirt side of the
trench a week so that one man could see the whole jap position
below then we called mortar and the fun started we were only about
100 yards from where the shells were striking and the ground shook
they fired several rounds close and then they began to drop right into position
finally we called and told them we were moving in and not to fire the position
was like a big wheel was a big wheel like a fair with holes
all around it and the spokes were connecting the trenches
with a big center installation in the hub two japanese machine
guns in the 37 millimeter that had fired at us during the previous week were
captured and destroyed there we tossed six dead japs out the hole and
brought them brought up our guns up and set them in
the jab holes we there we sat that night just daring
the little so-and-so's to come up man what positions they had one little
fight within a battle you know one little tiny fight within a battle and
think of all those decisions that got made and all those
actions that took place and the mistakes that had to be covered for
and the initiative that had to be shown and the bravery and the courage i mean
it's just it's leadership and that's that's what
it is it's leadership um they they go through a bunch of this
information um continuing on they there's another group that takes
another point and again look these guys i can pretty much
guarantee are no longer alive but this is these are quotes these are what
these guys are saying happened um you know things like
lieutenant walzack saying check your bayonets as they get ready to
do this assault and there's just so there's some some
other little battles within fights within battles that they cover and then
it gets into this comment section these accounts bring out some of the
characteristics of mountain warfare in which success depends more upon
proper adaptation of available means to the terrain
than upon their power so the wet the way you adapt is more
important it continues maneuver of small units
and the initiative and leadership of subordinate commanders
are of the highest importance in mountain warfare
the actions of small semi-independent units in
seizing or defending heights in or in fighting to seize or block passes
become of increasing importance so once again even though this book
starts off with the extreme dichotomy of discipline
of following orders it comes back always to decentralize
command an individual initiative by subordinate
leaders to make things happen he's talking about mountain warfare
there and and getting to this idea of i mean that's it that's leadership right
it's leadership is going to be the deciding factor here
because the terrain is so it's so impossible to predict there's so
many different things and places and outcroppings and
all these different and even tell the story what great position
they had in that previous example with the japanese
life is more like mountain warfare than it is there's gonna be these big open
fields of your life gonna just reveal themselves and you're just
gonna plan your your your move down down the road
there are so many things that are popping up when we're talking to
companies right now they're describing that same terrain in
their business lives of all these unpredicted
and unexpected things and it isn't the strength of their brand
and it isn't you know the qua it's the leadership that's navigating
these companies through and we're talking about the terrain of mountain
warfare that's what life is it's not just this
easy straight road from a to b and you just march down and everything
is is clean and how crazy that has to be that at
every single turn something comes up and the tool
the only tool that you have to get past that is leadership
and you know what i like also about this analogy and the way it ties into the
entire concept of yes of leadership but really even more
specifically to ownership and extreme ownership and and
that is this this is what's so beautiful about this
you can't move those mountains you cannot do you cannot those mountains
are what they are and that's what that's what
what triggered that thought in my mind was you said um there's all these
variables but what's interesting is you're looking at them
you know for days you understand you can see it on the map you can look at it
there's this mountain and you know what you can't move
that mountain and what you have to do is you have to move yourself and
this is you know i talk about this in jiu jitsu when someone's across the side
on you i can bench press you an inch you know
maybe two inches i don't care if you have a 500 pound bench press when you've
got a person that's mobile and they're they're securing you
and they've got your chest compressed like it you can't bench
press them off of you you can move them just enough then you
have to move it's incumbent upon you and so we can't
move mountains what we have to do is adapt what we have
to do is figure out how to utilize those things
and what the important thing is even though we can't
move those mountains the person that figures out how to utilize that
terrain is the one that's gonna win you utilize the terrain it's something
that i have no control over but i control how i interact with that
mountain and i know where i need to be and i know i understand the angles and i
understand what ravine will give me cover and i
understand where it exposes me even when he's talking about hey this
the way the japanese were set up i was like oh they can hit these guys
here in the flank and they can shoot these
guys in the back that's the position that they have
that's a freaking horrible situation to be rolling into
horrible situation to be rolling into so when you look at things instead of
sitting there and going saying i wish the market was different i wish
the competitor would do something different
i wish my employees would act in a different way
these are all things that you can look at you can wish all day long just like
you can wish that mountain moves but that mountain's not going anywhere
so you need to maneuver you need to take ownership of that situation and make
things happen there's a whole bunch of sections here
engineer operations tanks infantry notes and jungle operations one one section here japanese centers of
resistance were bypassed and isolated again how often do we
say oh dave doesn't like this part of my plan so i'm gonna
attack him on that instead of saying okay dave's gonna dig in right there
cool i'll maneuver around it right bypass i'm gonna start thinking
about that a little bit more often in my daily life
how can i bypass maybe not when it comes to working out because echo charles
pointed out that might not be the best plan but
if it's things that i don't want to engage in why am i engaging in them if i
don't have to if i can isolate and bypass and not make
it part of my gig that's fine frontal attacks were uniformly
successful when assisted by a flank attack on many occasions the flank attack
preceded the frontal attack coming into japanese positions from the
rear and completely disrupting their defense plans
in almost all cases the maneuver used by units of all sizes from division to
squad was the envelopment of one or both
flanks yeah resistance was made by resistance was
bypassed encircled and reduced later so the frontal assault works when it's
not actually a funnel that's awesome when you're doing
something else as well yes that's so legit uh section on section on automatic weapons night
operation security measures security at night lines of communication
patrol reports in general the distance covered by the patrols was much
less than expected of them the difficulties of terrain
caused by many patrol leaders to feel that they had covered two or three times
as much ground than they had actually covered
this must be taken to account when evaluating patrol reports
these are people that think that they know like hey i was
there isn't that crazy you could be looking at me totally convinced that you
went two kilometers and it turns out when we retrace your
steps you went whatever 700 yards 700 meters one last section to cover here um yeah this last section is very
interesting evacuation methods informal report solomon islands
evacuation of casualties was by hand carry
litter bearers cable litter slings across
jungle gullies improvised sleds or drags down steep inclines improvised
litter racks on quarter ton jeeps small boats on mountain streams or along the
coast and finally by field ambulances to
clearing stations or hospitals how's that for a nightmare when you when
you were in fallon did you were you ever a down pilot
yeah yeah did you get carried out on litters yeah you got a helicopter you
stage there and then they come out and get you like
the metal it's like a metal basket basically yeah the litter
did you ever get carried by a seal platoon like eight kilometers
no okay i know exactly what you're talking about i was never the i was
never the down air crew that got actually physically pulled right it's
not fun when you're getting carried because you're getting dropped you're
getting slammed you're getting all over the place and usually we would
stick guys with ivs you know or like we would
try and do some medical training on them as well but
good lord i want you to think about everything that i just said hand carry
cable litters across jungle gullies improvised sleds
drags down steep so you're wounded and what's the method of doing okay we're
gonna drag you down a steep incline improvised litter on a on a quarter ton
jeep imagine that thing bouncing around small boats think about a nightmare
and this is where you start to realize what a nightmare i'm talking about
evacuation by litter bearers was difficult
tiring time consuming and involved distances
averaging two or three miles and five to six miles
in some instances many more litter bearers had to be utilized than
under ordinary conditions litter carry in many cases required as high as
16 carriers per patient over almost impassable terrain and can
be counted as least efficient
so it takes 16 people to evacuate somebody two miles or three
miles where evacuation by litter was necessary
bearers worked in relays eight or even 16 men accompanying each
litter relieving one another in literacy and in cutting narrow paths
through the dense jungle 16 people to move a wounded man
i mean that's just crazy and obviously it wasn't all of them but
they're saying hey sometimes it was eight and
i'll tell you the reason i was asking you if you've ever been in that position
number one you get beat up but you know when we would do desert
training when i was running desert training man
those guys would do some down man carries and i'm sure
some of the guys that are hearing me saying that now are
smiling with pleasant memories of going eight kilometers through the imperial
valley desert carrying and eventually like the first
you know if we had a uh a troop that hadn't been through
before or didn't have any experience say oh
yeah hey which i you know what's your casualty evacuation plan oh we're just
gonna put two guys on them and we're gonna do i forget today there's some
name there's a couple carries you know there's a standard fireman's
carry oh we're just going to fireman's carrying okay
cool see how that see how that works out for you
you can't i mean it's it's you can do it for 100 meters 200 meters
300 meters 400 meters you're on
night vision you're in the worst freaking terrain rocks
shale rocks all over the place and it was great because as we would do
these drills and as guys realized what a traumatic
impact it was when you took casualties and how you had to adjust what you
thought you'd be able to do because you can't just freaking rambo
you can ramble somebody up i mean i've done it like okay grab a guy
and i'm going to carry him 150 meters 200 meters
by the time you get to that 200 meter mark like you're when you get
to the spot you're just falling down with the guy
300 meters you're just falling down and you're exhausted
and you've lost your weapon and your night vision and his gear is gone
it's a disaster until you figure out okay when this happens here's well
here's some procedures that we need to do talks about the improvised jeep
ambulances talks about evacuation by water physical fitness the arduous
and fatiguing litter caring demonstrated the need for physical fitness
on the part of medical department personnel which should
correct the impression that physically impaired
individuals can be utilized throughout medical
department activities so this idea that you can have a bunch
of you know guy that's injured or hurt and have him working in medical
being a stretcher bearer is completely and utterly wrong and that's
well that's a a wrap on the highlights that i had from this and you know i i don't know when i think
about this whole thing and we've been referring back to it the whole time the
so many good lessons but the the the the key take away from me
is that whole idea of leader versus inertia
and you know as soon as i said that today dave i looked at you and i saw you
had about a thousand thoughts going through your mind on what that means and
how many ways that we can apply that it's like the world is conspiring
against us and it's human nature to neglect
our duties and i know that sounds crazy and sure there's some outliers out there
that are proactive going to make things happen
but you've got to assess as a leader that human nature
is to be lazy and to be careless and you need to
definitely look in the mirror because it's not always just going to be
the people that you lead it's going to be
you and that section where they talk about
the hardest job that you have as a leader is getting things done
getting things done by people who know that they're supposed to do them and
even in some cases know that those things can cost in their lives
failure to do things failure to take action so don't allow that be on the lookout
how nice is it sometimes when you make the connection
between something that's there that you've always known was there but you
never pid'd it and by that echo i mean
positively identified like hey i know now everyone that's
listened to this today now knows that that's a problem
and and look we all kind of knew it right i mean i talked about it
disbelief's freedom field manual hey you know we're
gonna want to move like that's that's a real thing i get it
we all kind of get it but how about a pid on it
and now when it starts happening either with you or with your team
or with your family or with your friends you can p id it and then you can address
it properly and you can start with yourself you can start by making things happen
speaking of making things uh happen echo charles yes how can we do what we're supposed to do
what we know we should do on top of pid we pid it oh yeah
yeah same thing with complaining right remember we pid that long time ago
complaining uh blaming another one yeah those are two those are two good things
once you recognize once you pid those things man that blame one
oh yeah because if you don't pid the blame it'll like sneak in
away with it too really it's great oh yeah you can be like
yeah hey yeah i really shouldn't have done that you know it could have helped
you know if you would have gave me the heads up or whatever but you're right i
shouldn't shouldn't have done that did you see the blame
that stupid mountain was totally blocking our position
yeah kind of make it makes it kind of harder but no you're right i should have
done it you see i'm saying see me taking ownership but
slipping in the blame you pid the blame you can see it that's what i'm saying
anyway so don't do that when you're um working out which okay so i worked out
today actually no no i thought about working
out today but then i got into this deep
conversation with my wife okay about some important stuff
the window closed the window totally closed oh it closed
it straight up closed yeah cause the conversation went long i had to come
here you see what i'm saying yeah i had a window closing last night
it was i had something my wife was making
dinner i was like i can fit in a run right now before dinner
oh a late workout no just a run i already worked out
the run's not a workout so late night so i my wife was cooking
dinner i had like a 40 minute window my wife says oh
by the way someone's coming over to grab something i'm like
okay the run's not happening now the windows just
i'm kind of i'm kind of shrugging it off like oh well you know window closed you
know no run but then i pid it and i said you
know what i ate dinner which i hate i ate dinner
and then i ran just to punish myself i pulled one of
those before brad that's that's so true right there so that right there
what you just did what you went what you what you experienced
same deal right you got the 40 minute window or for running
right because you got it all planned on your head it goes beyond the run it goes
like the stuff you did before is in your mind
stuff you're gonna do after the run dinner all this other stuff
and the stuff after that in your mind does not include the run because the run
is already done that's it this whole formula right there
in your mind yeah so now that little window closed boom where's that run
gonna fit in i already know in my mind what i'm gonna
do after dinner which is after the run which already happened
right what i'm doing put the run there no it's already occupied in your brain
you see what i'm saying but the thing is it doesn't work like
that you put it there as as essentially like an excuse yeah yeah you
know what's crazy i so as i was running so now i'm running
20 minutes after i get done eating i don't think i've run on a full stomach
for 15 years think about that 15 years i
don't think i and i don't think i'll run on a full stomach again for another 15
years because it felt freaking awful and i don't roll i don't
work out on on a full stomach i don't like doing any
of that i can get away with like a workout depending on the workout i'm not
squatting on a full stomach because that's just not good
but maybe i can do some pull-ups on a full but yeah i was
running on a full stomach i won't do that again i i would next time
because i wanted to you know like eat with my family you know that like let's
eat time i would have eaten one fork full
of food and then not eaten and put it in the and then go for it
hang with the family go for a run come back yeah that would be the power move
and that's actually one of many power moves really the other power move is how
about this yeah good for you you know running on a
full stomach in 15 years freaking run on a full stomach oh i did
that's what i'm saying though you know what i'm saying like there's all kinds
of things that you can just push through and still get
it in that's what i'm saying even all the way down to hey who cares
if you're there if this person is coming over
yeah true that's the end of the world huh if you're not there
you know not the end of the world but maybe not
the best move at that time okay then we shift to the full stomach situation we
did it you know or maybe the half stomach
oh you know i'm just saying that the opportunity is always there you know
this was in line with sort of this evolving
attitude that i have now of of of kind of a going hard
against the weakness yeah i was like not only am i going to
run still i'm going to run on a full stomach and
just want to puke yeah a whole freaking time because that's how
you know so but i did the same exact thing but it was it was less complex for
sure but it was like the window was closing
like i can't get my full workout now because dinner time
like yeah you know i'm gonna eat dinner you ever just do something super short
in psycho though if you let the window close but you don't want to let it shut
so you're like okay cool oh you want to be like that cool
yeah just going to go in here and do like mayhem for
18 minutes yeah yeah because you can get a freaking good workout in 18 minutes
yeah it's probably not going to be the plan to work out in my situation
but yeah yeah i'll do that a few i'd done that a few times when i had to like
come here somewhere where if i'm late it kind of affects other
people and you know it's like it's my fault anyway you know
so i'll oh yeah i'll do that kind of stuff for sure but i did it with the
dinner thing and i did a metcon on a full stomach
and i even told you about it the next day i was like i was doing anyway it's a
long story but yeah well speaking of timelines let's rock and roll yes sir all right
okay look we're doing workouts we're not doing excuses we're what fighting
against weakness punishing weak weakness thoughts we're punishing
ourselves for those thoughts or considerations but when you
do that you know you join your bodies take a beating specifically
your joints from time to time okay choco is supplementation
for that so supplements are chocolate fuel
joint warfare for your joints super krill oil
for your joints vitamin d is it super vitamin d we'll just say
it's pretty good how about that because i'd say yeah super super it's not called
super vitamin d maybe we need your help with branding on
that one no man like you helped us with super krill i didn't know kind of funny
either way it's vitamin d nonetheless i'm gonna change the name too
super vitamin d all day yeah for 100 percent so you know get on that one
um also cold war wasn't it called like some cold killer
or something yeah before you can't say that kind of stuff don't say that
because it kills colds you can't say that you can't say that that's a
bad advertising what's the word so we can't say that but we can't go to
war against colds yes missile uh defense tank
what is it the tank the cold war missile defense i say that cold war missile
defense yes sir you say that i do all day i
fight the war against colds every day let's see also discipline
regular discipline and the supplementation discipline
cans powder pills whatever you need yeah whatever your mentality that little
yeah big little psychological hitter a little bit of
a little bit of go jocko palmer taking the lead sorry is it taking the
lead it's leading right now it's leading i agree yeah i agree first
flavor school yeah i had the long drive to montana
sure 17 hours all one go one go one go nope i mean i
stopped for gas fuel of course yes sir but the cool
thing was uh just kind of fyi for your research in
the future two discipline go let's cans
much one and about one at about midnight maybe one o'clock in the
morning and i had another one at like two or
three that's that's the kind of that's the that's
once the sun's coming up you're good yeah when's the sun coming about rock
and roll but there's i guess it's maybe around
four o'clock in the morning like you don't see as soon as you start seeing
sun your body goes oh cool we're awake now yeah it's day it's that
3 34 4 30 where your body thinks you should
be asleep right freaking now yeah get that hitter boy
17-hour drive so when when you time it like when do you leave like night time
essentially yep yeah you're right post time
dinner departure yeah okay i dig it i don't think i've ever driven
17 hours ever ever cool i'm not sure how valuable that
information is but those are the facts uh yeah so mulk don't forget about mulk
don't forget about you you probably need extra protein i had a mulk
before i came here today just because i have doms
sure and i was like meaning delayed onset muscle soreness
sure a little heavy on squats yesterday and i have a lot of doms so i just
kicked down some mulch a little extra protein plus i was in the
mood for dessert even though i didn't have any lunch
so anyways all this stuff choco white tea kids
kids wore your kid milk you get all the stuff at the vitamin shop
we also make ed or also you can get it at
if you want to support this podcast if you want to support america in general
which if you want to support america in general good on you
get yourself some quality items yeah get yourself a ghee
for your jujitsu get yourself a rash guard for your jiu jitsu
t-shirts jeans jeans american denim boots you guys have the
um delta 68 then the what's the regular one
called again the factory jeans factory genes is there
like another what do you call it a model no that's the two models right now
factory genes heavier delta genes lighter which i know this is
a little strange but you know not man i dig it um you
know delta 68.

Montana was wearing a
lightweight hoodie not you though no it wasn't me but they
told me like to tell you that they supported
approved in montana by the way which is
surprising you can't argue with the people
i mean it's just you know it goes against your whole thing
you know anyway yes origin that's where all this stuff exists
it's something american-made fully also jocko has a store it's called this is where you can get discipline equals freedom deathcore good
worth all deathcore technically technically for sure so yeah just
blending hoodies shirts hats
lightweight hoodies that's or rash guards for sure
we've got some new stuff new stuff oh you've been plotting all kinds of stuff
over there we have a few new things uh really good stuff utility
and more utility we we have a shirt coming that may become
sort of like the shirt i'm not making any predictions
just for me personally it might become the shirt that i
end up wearing a lot you literally won't wear anything else it'll be like
remember back in the day when you still always wear victory even before the
podcast i look at all the old pictures of
ourselves victory shirt as long as you've known me yeah it's
like you can't even recognize you if you don't have that victory shirt on
if even a picture like that even exists which i don't think it does
it's going to be one of those well we've had victory for
what 10 years yeah and so for a long time and we've been doing the
podcast for five uh something like that coming up on
five so that means for five complete years
before this podcast the the one free t-shirt i had which i
had a lot of them sure actually john dudley asked me that
the we were up in montana like the the fifth day in a row i posted up in a
victory t-shirt he said do you just wear that or wash it
or you have a thousand of them i go no i don't have a thousand of them but i
got ten oh yeah we have the light one and the dark one
either way that's why you have the light one and the dark one of this
new shirt i'll let you make it you know i'll let you uh what do you call it uh
roll it out as it were reveal it anyway review
it's jocko's jam big time anyway that's where you can get
your uh that's where you can go get your stuff
to represent while you're on the path put it that way some new stuff so uh
keep that in mind look if you wanna know about new stuff
or how should i wanna know about new stuff
dave what shirt is that this is a deathcore shirt but it's
available it's absolutely available it's called
ops you have black ops you're wearing it and he has i know i
have the black one declassified the declassified version but here's the
deal the difference between a white shirt
and a black shirt in the california sun is extreme
yes sir so i like to wear a white shirt i don't have this one
echo charles yeah easy yeah things that must suck really but hey man
you know i know a guy and maybe we'll get you one cool yeah yeah
so yes if you want a uh deathcore black ops or
declassified declassified
yes i like it i i like it when you sort of mingle with military terms normally if you're suspect you you
contact me yeah you say hey what would this be a correct
usage of the word whatever yeah or appropriate yeah yeah often times i say
you know not really yeah there was one thing i did and i think
yeah it was you oh the high speed low drag i was gonna use that in some
it wasn't a shirt but it was in some other stuff i was doing
and you're like hey don't do that don't do that one because it wasn't like
appropriate yeah i forget what it was because high
speed low drag is definitely a term yes and it has a meaning i forget
the way you used it i used it in a more serious way than it should be oh yeah
that's not a serious term yeah it's kind of like
that guy is high speed low draft yeah like for real it's kind of like
you might say it about a pair of gucci looking shooting glasses
yeah yeah yeah that's what i learned uh yeah so anyway back to what i was saying
hey if you want to get be in the know we have an email list on
jocko's store if you want to be in the know about some stuff i
i don't abuse this list at all in fact i i under utilize it actually
i tried try my best to save it for important stuff
the stuff that i think it's important so if you want to know about a new product
some new board shorts that may or may not be on the way
or something like this if you're on the email list you will get notified before
everybody i'm not saying our stuff sells out what
if you have important information what if you have important information
about rolling frying pans uh well you know hey look does that make
the list usually stuff like that no thank you
bill for inquiring i mean we do have to clarify i guess and
so that's correct but important in information about jacqueline store sign
up for that email list hey we'll get that info to you and
you'll have it before everybody else and boom won't be all good will you put
the new t-shirt on there yes i well yeah you said that was mine
to announce yeah that might be yours to announce
or you just send the email how about that okay i'll send an email out when
the new shirt is released uh subscribe to the podcast if
you haven't already we also have some other podcasts we have
uh the new podcast which is isn't on its own channel yet it's called
the unraveling it was called the thread we had to
change the name we also have the grounded podcast we also have the
warrior kid podcast we have a youtube channel by the way
we have a youtube channel that has all these podcasts
on them you can see us except for the first seven because the first seven
there was no video involved it's just voice oh yeah even though we did the
first podcast on like some kind of live stream
if you tried to yeah i remember we were having some trouble
technically yeah so anyways or and then also
some of these are there's some excerpts in there as well yeah
sure and there's also some things that echo charles
experiments with random and very over the top special effects
on on just normal videos and he'll put 98 special effects into a
two-minute video but this video right here which is gonna be
three hours and 40 minutes long there will be no
no excitement other than just watching me crack up at my own jokes
at the end of this podcast no additional excitement needed in my opinion
so far there could be so many good little ex like
extra additions and easter eggs or whatever you call them
in this particular podcast talking about flanking people
mortars 37 millimeters 88 grenades just think of all the cool
stuff that could be flying around in here
it's blowing up anyway also jocko has or we have an
album with tracks called psychological warfare
you know if you don't know what this is don't worry this this is going to help
you it helps us so we're talking about inertia right
uh object that is in st rest stays at rest tends to stay at rest and
it's if it's in motion so anyway if you're battling to get into motion
when you're currently at rest and it's hard sometimes it's hard
i got you this will help that is what i'm saying psychological warfare okay
jocko telling you what to do not necessarily what to do but
why you should do what you should do it's about accurate right yeah yeah
that's available wherever you need mp3s also if you want a visual representation
of those types of messages go to
my brother dakota myers makes stuff to hang on your wall got a
bunch of books the code the evaluation the protocol leadership
strategy and tactics field manual way the warrior kid one two and three mikey
and the dragons discipline equals freedom field manual
extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership you can get those books
pretty much anywhere books are sold we have a consulting
agency for leadership and what we do is we solve problems
through leadership go to for details
if you can't get with us live that's fine go to
where we get granular with these things on a regular basis
where you want to talk to me you want to interact with me go to i you will you will ask me questions me on
a zoom call you want to talk to dave you
want to ask him something go to you will interact
with him you will ask him questions he will give you answers
that's what we do on that channel there's a bunch of training on that
channel there's a forum on that channel so go to
ef on if for that
we also have the muster coming up in phoenix arizona september 16th and 17th and then dallas texas
december 3rd and 4th check extreme extreme for details
we've we're going to be doing these looks like with social distancing
so there's going to be less seats available which means they're going to
sell out faster we have ef overwatch which is
our placement firm we're taking people from the military and
placing them into businesses so if you are a vet looking for
work or you are a company looking for leaders to come into your company that
understand the principles that we talk about here go to
if you want to help out veterans around the world
service members around the world go to america's that is
mark lee's mom mama lee helping all service people out
you can go there and you can either donate or you can get involved
and if you just can't get enough of my in terminable
tirades or you needs a little bit more of
echo charles's preposterous postulations or maybe you just like to hear one more
of dave's jangling juxtapositions then you can find us on the interwebs on
twitter instagram and on facebook dave is at david burke david r burke
b-e-r-k-e echo is that echo charles and i am at jocko willing and of course
thanks to all the men and women in uniform who allow us to
live our lives the way we want to and that
is in glorious freedom and to the police and law enforcement
and firefighters and paramedics and emts and dispatchers and correctional
officers and border patrol and secret service thanks to all of you
for protecting us and for keeping our nation a nation of law
and order not a nation of chaos and anarchy and to everyone else out there just just remember that the effect on
most men of the impact of battle is to cause them to want to do nothing and it's the same thing with the slings
and arrows of life we get pushed toward inaction and
inactivity and indolence and the solution to that is that a
determined effort must be exerted
to accomplish things to accomplish tasks and that is on you and you know what that means it means
get out there and get after it and until next time
this is dave and echo and jocko out

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